[AC] StepManiaX produced by Kyle Ward

All great, constructive feedback. I appreciate it, and I do agree that he difficulty jump can be a bit...extreme on some songs. Definitely something that can be looked at and taken into consideration with future updates.

One thing to note - If you have song suggestions, send them to this form here. A lot of the content (new and revived) is born out of suggestions that players have submitted here - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScfx_HHjg-58i6oBs9jcawZpavVk0gipE_okCIMiyh646W5Vw/viewform

for Saints go Marching the ending cross over (from 4th Mix/Extreme) i was expecting those to be in there honestly and it just feels off that they arent in there. I like the songs dont get me wrong but the charts look horrible.

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Complaints about being too similar to DDR, complaints about not deliberately copying charts from DDR... Yeah, I can see why the people working on StepManiaX are getting annoyed.

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Then they shouldnt do DanceMania revivals.

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What exactly is wrong with an old song having new charts? I don't get what you're trying to say here. They've already said Dancemania stuff was well-requested.

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You said they are getting annoyed, im just saying if they dont want to be annoyed then dont do them like im all up for them.

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For those curious about the current song list, that can be found here - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X3p6XL499I_U7CO1eXQ-fyJfQ5eWA-usS6Lr1SBDIvA/edit?usp=sharing

Of the 171 songs currently in the game, 13 have previously been in DDR. 15 if you want to include the remixes of Boom Boom Dollar and Dream A Dream that are in the game, but previously weren't in DDR.

At that point if I want to play the same song with the same chart, I'll just play it on DDR. I like how the new charts kind of give an old file new life. Most of the time they end up being better charts too. I'd rather see something new and fresh than something from 20 years ago.

However that last line I can say for the song list as of late as well. I don't have a problem with them building on nostalgia but when more than half of the update is nostalgia (counting older DDR and ITG stuff), it's kind of noticeable.

I'm not going to say there's a lack of original content as the game started with a good amount of new songs, it's just the updates have been very nostalgia heavy to the point it's too hard to ignore. Not an awful thing and at least that's better than bad/no content so maybe I'm cherry picking, but I feel like the people who do have an issue of the game as of late being "hey remember DDR? remember ITG?", has valid criticism that should not be bushed off and ignored.

I will say if the nostalgic content is getting to you, go to the song suggestions forum that was posted and fill it out will only help. If you want newer stuff, say what kind of newer stuff you want. We all get a chance to do something about it and should be thankful that they are willing to listen.

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Imagine if DDR announced there was going to be an update that was Kind Lady, Spin the Disc, and four 5th Mix revivals.

Tell me with a straight face the amount of blowjobs people would be giving Konami wouldn't spill into the quadruple digits.

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tbf i don't think many people remember half of 5th mix's songlist, how many people know what movin on is

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How many original songs have this game received out of curiosity? Considering Kyle is a composer and seeing zero original (from what I've seen, I could be wrong) songs from him is quite disappointing. In general, the lack of originals makes the game have zero identity.

Even MUSECA is more interesting than this sad DDR tribute to old licensed music.

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I called this a while ago in this very thread.

And it still doesn't seem to have changed. Hell, just look at Become Astral (one of the best additions to the game IMO). The Hard 18 doesn't even prepare anyone for a Wild 15. Even DDR actually provides more complex Basic/Difficult charts than anything SMX has, even those that are just 8th notes, from difficulty 5s to 14s.

After I had played SMX once, with multiple people clamoring at me about how the local DDR machine is poorly maintained (a lie) and SMX is the future while only ever touching Wild, I have found no reason to want to play again. PIU is more accessible than SMX and gives me more options for how I want to play. DDR has more variety in its many charts, singles and doubles of all difficulties, that SMX does not wish to explore. SMX wants me to play Wild on every song and nothing else, and does not expose me to anything new musically with these updates.

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I do........

Honestly I would die happy if Konami revived THE CUBE and Make Your Move from 4th Mix but that's just me

Plus 5th Mix's songlist is mostly unremembered because the licenses only appeared in that mix and few of them got revived on the PS2/XBox games.

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Hey there!

Definitely thanks for the enthusiasm. We're always looking for feedback - I was concerned by a few of these points so I decided to investigate a little bit!

I agree that Become Astral is one of the stronger songs that we've gotten, as it fits within my own personal tastes and just is a banging song all together. Ash was also super awesome with helping implement their background visuals to where the engine is rendering some aspects in realtime and synced up with the chart. That being said, I went ahead and recorded the Hard 18 chart:



There are various BPM changes, stops, and overall a higher BPM (clocking at 180 in the fast sections) with 8th notes, as well as sections of offset steps and even a section with 12ths/triplets.

You mentioned that it "doesn't even prepare anyone for a Wild 15" - I find that actually impossible to believe, as there are no Wild charts under 19 in the game.

As with many rhythm games, we implement a numerical value as well as a named difficulty level. The named difficulty level lets people unfamiliar with the game to quickly pick a set "area" of difficulties to play in, which based on our many studies, observations, and tests, found to be extremely helpful for the majority of players (people who either casually play, have an interest in the game, and yes, even higher end players as they know they can jump to Wild for a challenge). That being said, significant thought goes into what to make the actual numerical number, as that's what more involved or hardcore players actually look at to determine difficulty.

For comparison sake, I've gone ahead and recorded a video of another Hard chart, this time Monolith, which is Hard 19.



Now, comparing that to one of the lowest level Wild charts, which in this case will be Pink Dinosaur, Wild 19, you can see that they are very comparable in terms of numerical difficulties. While it doesn't have the High BPM, it has more note consistency throughout, with an increase in complexity towards the end.



All videos were recorded with the speed multiplier set to 1.5x to still show the BPM scaling between the charts.

Now to add to that, there are Hard charts that do contain the more "advanced" techniques to introduce players into them.

Start and Paws Hard 14 has lifts in a slower way to show players that there are some other mechanics that they will see later. Young Forever Hard 16 has little 16th bursts that give a short intro to little fast sections. The Hard charts in the game have significantly different feels, and if you even look at the most recent update video, you'll see significant differences between the hard charts (left side), with charts having much different feels and almost "gimmicks" to each.

But woah woah WOAH. Soapy Bubbly, Hard 18, comes in here like



16ths, Mines, bursts 🤔

I've gone ahead and screenshotted a plot of all of our current singles difficulties for you here as well:



You can also view the entire list with their difficulties at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X3p6XL499I_U7CO1eXQ-fyJfQ5eWA-usS6Lr1SBDIvA/edit?usp=sharing

The tldr is - there are no Wilds under 19, Hard charts were specifically crafted and designed for the majority playerbase/audience and to ease them into the other difficulties, and by all of our metrics, stats from the game, and overall acceptance it's working exactly as it should be. We always do appreciate the feedback and we will continue to see what we can do to ease the differences between difficulties as that can be and will always be something that the project strives for. Personally, I can see some areas that we can improve on near the top end of the hard charts, and that's something that will change too as more and more songs are released (we're up to 171 with even more coming!)

Also worth noting - "Hard" is typically a new player's second interaction with a difficulty bump. We absolutely favor and put focus on smoothing the difficulty curve between Easy and Hard, because this is where newer or more casual players push up their skill as Hard introduces newer concepts for them such as proper foot placement, faster reading speeds, 8ths, small bursts, twisting around movement wise, and a plethora of other techniques that are obvious to more seasoned players. This audience composes of a HUGE majority of the playerbase - sure people with experience will jump into Hard or Wild immediately, but in order to be accessable, these needs to be a middle ground for people to learn more difficulty things. When you look at other games, SMX Hard should NOT be compared 1:1 with "hard" ratings, and instead moreso to older games Standard/Trick with only the higher end being similar to Heavy/Difficult. Having a medium-ish difficulty with huge spikes is the exact problem holding new players back in basically every other game currently. Again, the difficulty names are good ways for players to load into a specific "bank" of charts, where more veteran or people learning what they are comfortable with use the number scale.

I would absolutely argue the accessibility differences between other games, though, as I have seen them in person and at many events with the actual market of players that any product should strive for, and find it amusing that all of those opinions were gained by just playing once, as you said. Both game accessibility in terms of chart design and UI/UX are much higher compared to other games, and will also still continue to improve with more options for expert players and adjust to feedback!

The other question that I will pose back is this: some of the recent songs are long sought after old licenses that existed outside of existing media before they were in any other game. Is there a particular reason that there are attacks or insults with us going after long lost licenses that players are requesting? Why is it being thrown around that 'we're using these songs as a crutch' for some reason, but if any other game had them it magically wouldn't be?

Is the same thing said about Brainpower being licensed in various other games? Conflict? FLOWER? Bad Apple? Any of the Touhou licenses? POP TEAM EPIC?

I'm genuinely curious!

Regarding the game using nostalgia: ZiGZaG revival when?

I can only speak for myself, but yes. If other games were doing this I would feel the same. I feel the same when I see Brain Power, Bad Apple, etc. everywhere. Honestly I feel the same way with the songs in StepManiaX's songlist that come from ITG/PIU/ReRave. Yawn, we've seen it already.

I'm going to focus specifically on a few things to kind of make sure what I'm getting at is getting across. No ill will or anything, so sorry if it does come off as aggressive. I'm bad at conveying things sometimes.

Ah, this chart helps with showing me exactly what I needed to see.

It looks like the charts are made with the difficulty label in mind rather than the rating coming after the charts are made. Making sure that players can work their way up is just one thing to keep in mind when making charts, but focusing solely on that does not make them fun in the slightest.

Yes, I'm wrong there are no Wilds under 19. Okay, fine. That doesn't change the charts under a 19 then (which I can now safely say because that's where everything that isn't Wild is). All those I've seen haven't been interesting enough to go out of my way to play. They aren't fun.

I regularly play Basic and Difficult on DDR even though I can AAA 16s and pass some 18s. It's why I'm actively talking about making fun charts on lower levels.

I don't personally want to play the hardest difficulty in the games I play. This applies to dance games too. When I look at Become Astral I don't see a chart I could have fun with. It feels like filler telling me to move up for something unique and interesting.

Wild is where the fun is. The whole game should have that kind of fun instead. There should be multiple charts that do interesting things to stand out. Soapy Bubble Hard is kind of like that, but why aren't there more like that instead? That's fun. That's exciting.

The UI is fine and easy to get from my experience. I know I mentioned training up to Wild but that is not what I meant to say now that I'm rereading this. I think my points are better stated above and aren't so much accessibility related.

I'm hoping all the above comes off right. I'm basically trying to say the lower level charts only exist to get people to play Wild where the fun actually lies when they could be charts that stand out on their own too. From what I've been shown with those videos, that's how I feel about it all.

chewi said one argument for it I can agree with. New music in general is great to hear. It's why I find Cowbell Rock to be an excellent addition to the game (and my favorite when I played).

However, the main difference between all those songs you listed and the songs featured in DDR old mixes is that none of those songs are only known for being in DDR.

Big difference there. Nobody is listening to POP TEAM EPIC because it was featured in Dance Rush, or Bad Apple because it was in Pump. They have relevance elsewhere. The only relevance Pink Dinosaur and Senorita Speedy Mix have is that they were in DDR. That's how 99% of people know those songs. If they were never added to DDR, how many people right now would even recognize them?

Also, SMX has Seventh Element. It's not the popular songs that's an issue. It's more the songs that were from other music games before. It's specifically those songs. It's Bumble Bee. It's Pink Dinosaur. It's not any of their other songs or even other artists with the same genre that hasn't been featured before. That's the actual pandering part. If these were different songs of the exact same genre it wouldn't come off as such.

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Thank you for accidentally illustrating that’s what old-hat for some is new for others, because it turns out that you in fact don’t agree with chewi considering you thought Cowboy Rock was a new track and a favorite at that.