Post #1 · Posted at 2009-08-19 07:16:42am 14.7 years ago
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I want to know in two categories; Speaking and Writing (also how many characters you need to know in both languages to be able to geberally understand a text)
Btw for Chinese, I'm talking about Mandarin (I'd learn Cantonese but aside from understanding what the two old Chinese ladies at the bus stop are saying, is it really that more useful than Mandarin?)
Thanks in advance
Btw for Chinese, I'm talking about Mandarin (I'd learn Cantonese but aside from understanding what the two old Chinese ladies at the bus stop are saying, is it really that more useful than Mandarin?)
Thanks in advance
Post #2 · Posted at 2009-08-19 07:19:53am 14.7 years ago
| Bolt-Edge | |
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Japanese by far.
Post #3 · Posted at 2009-08-19 07:31:53am 14.7 years ago
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Both are very difficult languages, but Chinese is much more difficult to learn verbally. There are multiple tones used while speaking that can totally change the meanings of words.
Post #4 · Posted at 2009-08-19 07:40:01am 14.7 years ago
| boomba | |
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Japanese is much easier to learn. But if you learn Chinese first, it'll give you the benefit that you 'll be able to read the tooyoo kanji and Hanja (Korean).
Post #5 · Posted at 2009-08-19 07:41:20am 14.7 years ago
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I'd say Japanese, but both are considered among the most difficult languages to learn.
Interestingly, I found this little tidbit online
Interestingly, I found this little tidbit online
Quote: Wikipedia
The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the US Department of State has compiled approximate learning expectations for a number of languages.[3] Of the 63 languages analyzed, the five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading (for native English speakers who already know other languages), requiring 88 weeks, are: "Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean", withJapanese being the most difficult
Post #6 · Posted at 2009-08-19 09:12:47am 14.6 years ago
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I'd say Japanese is easier.
Spoken: Chinese is tonal, Japanese is not. I've noticed a lot of native English speakers have difficulty hearing the tones properly, and if you can't speak and hear the tones you can't speak Chinese at all. Also, now I don't know much Japanese, but English native speakers also have a very difficult time pronouncing the "un" sound in Mandarin, such as 伦. English seems to be one of the only languages that lacks this sound, so if you're proficient and have a good accent with some other languages this probably won't be a problem.
Written: Chinese is far more difficult than Japanese, hands down. Japanese has a rather finite alphabet and even the kanji often have hirigana over them to help you pronounce them. Chinese, it's pure memorization, there's no alphabet. You have to memorize the strokes and their order. And even if you become a master of simplified (which is what pretty much everywhere teaches), you still will struggle to read traditional which is still in fairly widespread use outside of China.
As for Cantonese or Mandarin, good luck finding somewhere to teach you Cantonese abroad. There's a decent number of Mandarin schools but I've yet to come across a Cantonese one. Mandarin is more practical if only because there are substantially more Mandarin speakers in the world.
That being said, I enjoy learning Chinese and it's fun and honestly it didn't take that long to get to a very basic conversational, writing, and reading level.
Spoken: Chinese is tonal, Japanese is not. I've noticed a lot of native English speakers have difficulty hearing the tones properly, and if you can't speak and hear the tones you can't speak Chinese at all. Also, now I don't know much Japanese, but English native speakers also have a very difficult time pronouncing the "un" sound in Mandarin, such as 伦. English seems to be one of the only languages that lacks this sound, so if you're proficient and have a good accent with some other languages this probably won't be a problem.
Written: Chinese is far more difficult than Japanese, hands down. Japanese has a rather finite alphabet and even the kanji often have hirigana over them to help you pronounce them. Chinese, it's pure memorization, there's no alphabet. You have to memorize the strokes and their order. And even if you become a master of simplified (which is what pretty much everywhere teaches), you still will struggle to read traditional which is still in fairly widespread use outside of China.
As for Cantonese or Mandarin, good luck finding somewhere to teach you Cantonese abroad. There's a decent number of Mandarin schools but I've yet to come across a Cantonese one. Mandarin is more practical if only because there are substantially more Mandarin speakers in the world.
That being said, I enjoy learning Chinese and it's fun and honestly it didn't take that long to get to a very basic conversational, writing, and reading level.
Post #7 · Posted at 2009-08-19 10:36:18am 14.6 years ago
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That's the thing. I had Chinese learning podcasts on my Ipod (got rid of them though, as I did with Japanese) and whenever they'd say the dialogue, I was able to distinguish the tones. So I think I got tones down 
But then again, they weren't speaking at natrual speed...
However in Japanese, from what I've heard you guys say, the characters are easier but there's so many grammar rules in Japanese but no tones or anything.
But then again, they weren't speaking at natrual speed...However in Japanese, from what I've heard you guys say, the characters are easier but there's so many grammar rules in Japanese but no tones or anything.
Post #8 · Posted at 2009-08-19 10:56:01am 14.6 years ago
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The characters aren't necessarily easier in Japanese, because you still have to use the thousands of Kanji characters. But in Japanese, you have the "kana" systems that sort of "offset" the number of Kanji used. So while in Chinese you use Kanji exclusively, in Japanese you use a mixture of thousands of Kanji and the 100 or so kana characters.
And as an added note, I HATE learning Kanji. It's not that hard when the characters are easily distinguishable like 田 or 月, but when you start getting into characters like 議, it gets pretty ridiculous.
And as an added note, I HATE learning Kanji. It's not that hard when the characters are easily distinguishable like 田 or 月, but when you start getting into characters like 議, it gets pretty ridiculous.
Post #9 · Posted at 2009-08-19 12:18:10pm 14.6 years ago
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I couldn't really say which is "easier," but I find it funny that this topic came up. Today was actually my first day of taking Japanese. The professor told the class much about how the Japanese language has similarities to other languages (such as Spanish) as well as differences with other languages (such as what Arctic said regarding Chinese being tonal).
Post #10 · Posted at 2009-08-19 02:35:51pm 14.6 years ago
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For me,it's more difficult chinese than japanese.We dont really need to use Japanese tones.
Furthermore,depends on what languages that you more interested with..:-)
Furthermore,depends on what languages that you more interested with..:-)
Post #11 · Posted at 2009-08-19 03:34:09pm 14.6 years ago
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And depends on what's your plan for future.
Post #12 · Posted at 2009-08-19 04:17:20pm 14.6 years ago
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Yeah, usefulness, particularly in what career you have planned, is an important thing to consider too. Japanese and Chinese are probably among the best languages to learn in terms of career-boosters. Careers associated with technology for certain, but it will help in other career paths as well (financial institutions, for example). And of course, it should be obvious that most video game companies will really value Japanese fluency (I've been told by those who work at Konami that Japanese fluency is a plus on any resume, regardless of what job you are applying for).
You do need proper documentation though. You can't just walk in and say "Hi, I know *such-and-such* language!'. The company is not going to want to spend the time and resources to check to see if you're bluffing. I have no idea how it works for Chinese, but the general standard for Japanese is the "Japanese Language Proficiency Test", which requires no college or anything. Just pay the fee and go to the testing site in December. The kicker is that the test is only held in about five cities in America, and only once a year. There are four levels (there will be five starting next year simply because of the ghastly jump from level 3 to level 2) and most companies just want a level 2 certificate, which is about 6,000 words and 1,000 Kanji characters, along with various grammatical elements.
Thankfully, I just reminded myself to sign up for the Level 3 exam. Registration's open 'till September~~
You do need proper documentation though. You can't just walk in and say "Hi, I know *such-and-such* language!'. The company is not going to want to spend the time and resources to check to see if you're bluffing. I have no idea how it works for Chinese, but the general standard for Japanese is the "Japanese Language Proficiency Test", which requires no college or anything. Just pay the fee and go to the testing site in December. The kicker is that the test is only held in about five cities in America, and only once a year. There are four levels (there will be five starting next year simply because of the ghastly jump from level 3 to level 2) and most companies just want a level 2 certificate, which is about 6,000 words and 1,000 Kanji characters, along with various grammatical elements.
Thankfully, I just reminded myself to sign up for the Level 3 exam. Registration's open 'till September~~
Post #13 · Posted at 2009-08-19 08:57:47pm 14.6 years ago
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I think it depends. Chinese is a tonal language and has more or less general rules for "grammar". Japanese is not tonal but it uses them. (hashi/hashi have different tones for example and two different meanings). It has complex grammar though. It is quite accurate and regular. Learning Japanese is also about learning the culture and "hierarchy" system in it. That's what makes you fluent in the language later on. It's more about the way Japanese people think. Japanese is in one way pretty direct language but it uses a lot of "nuances" that Japanese person gets right away. If you won't have problems with this Japanese is fine for you. For me the language is more technical/mathematical. It feels more like maths than...um what?....
kana is easy to learn and you need to know at least 1700 most commonly used kanji to be able to read. kanji not used often have furigana so if you know the word you know it or you can search it up in a dictionary. I have no idea what is the number of characters you need to know in Chinese.
JLPT is not difficult. Or at least I expected the test to be much more difficult than that. actually here you can do it here once per year at Czech-Japanese community. I had the chance to try JLPT1-3 and found them rather easy. I have no idea about number 4 though. It's a complex test (about a lot of things) but does not require huge vocabulary or kanji knowledge (at least my knowledge was sufficient and I probably don't know the 1000 most used kanji).
Anyway generally Japanese is taken as more difficult. Chinese being actually much easier to learn. But personally I cannot say a thing about this as I don't speak Chinese and can hardly say ni hao (add correct tones).
kana is easy to learn and you need to know at least 1700 most commonly used kanji to be able to read. kanji not used often have furigana so if you know the word you know it or you can search it up in a dictionary. I have no idea what is the number of characters you need to know in Chinese.
JLPT is not difficult. Or at least I expected the test to be much more difficult than that. actually here you can do it here once per year at Czech-Japanese community. I had the chance to try JLPT1-3 and found them rather easy. I have no idea about number 4 though. It's a complex test (about a lot of things) but does not require huge vocabulary or kanji knowledge (at least my knowledge was sufficient and I probably don't know the 1000 most used kanji).
Anyway generally Japanese is taken as more difficult. Chinese being actually much easier to learn. But personally I cannot say a thing about this as I don't speak Chinese and can hardly say ni hao (add correct tones).
Post #14 · Posted at 2009-08-19 09:47:31pm 14.6 years ago
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Couldn't you learn any sort of language the easy way? Besides, there's a program called Rosetta Stone. It's teaching technique helps you learn a language more in two weeks than months of classes. Me, I have never tried it, but I've seen the commercials for it, and I am convinced. If I could, I would learn both Japanese and Chinese with Rosetta Stone. But, the big problem is the price. I just looked at how much the Japanese lessons cost, and it costs $499. That's why I don't want the software.
Post #15 · Posted at 2009-08-19 10:37:29pm 14.6 years ago
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Quote: xRGTMx
Me, I have never tried it, but I've seen the commercials for it, and I am convinced. If I could, I would learn both Japanese and Chinese with Rosetta Stone.
... this is the job of commercials. You'd be better off finding actual testamonials (not from their site). There is no 'easy way' to learn a language, just hard work and dedication and practice. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise; you'll be disappointed.
Post #16 · Posted at 2009-08-20 12:11:16am 14.6 years ago
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I've looked at Rosetta Stone. All it does is teach you some vocabulary and some common phrases. It doesn't teach you anything about grammar or even the writing system.
Post #17 · Posted at 2009-08-20 02:22:06am 14.6 years ago
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Quote: Arctic Wolves
Quote: xRGTMx
Me, I have never tried it, but I've seen the commercials for it, and I am convinced. If I could, I would learn both Japanese and Chinese with Rosetta Stone.
... this is the job of commercials. You'd be better off finding actual testamonials (not from their site). There is no 'easy way' to learn a language, just hard work and dedication and practice. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise; you'll be disappointed.
B~~~~~ingo
As much as people like to sell CDs and computer programs, there is no "magic" way to learn a language. If you want to learn a language, sit down and actually do the hard work. If you're not willing to do that, then don't even try, because you're not going to get much of anywhere.
I know that Rosetta Stone is highly respected, but you are certainly not going to become even close to fluent by just using that. In fact, Rosetta Stone was one of the first things I tried and almost made me quit Japanese because of how confused it made me.
Quote: Bolt-Edge
I've looked at Rosetta Stone. All it does is teach you some vocabulary and some common phrases. It doesn't teach you anything about grammar or even the writing system.
The newest version of Rosetta Stone does teach you the kana I think. It also tries to teach you grammar but really gives you no specific guidance. Basically, you have to assume a whole hell of a lot.
Post #18 · Posted at 2009-08-24 10:52:33am 14.6 years ago
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Japanese is easier. Not much Kanji words (Chinese words)
But you must know how to read some Kanji words when it join with another Kanji or Hiragana.
But you must know how to read some Kanji words when it join with another Kanji or Hiragana.
