No Bar / No Double-Step DDR

In m y experience, the people who win no-bar tournaments are consistently the same people who would win the tournament anyway. It's not any sort of 'great equaliser'.

That's because that chart you showed is pretty terrible and not something in DDR to begin with. Doing a pattern like that in a 16th stream is not how DDR does it at all.

Here's Mars Wars 3 in comparison:


Starting with right foot on the down arrow right before measure 49, alternating your feet does require you to do a spin but only after doing a pattern facing away from the screen. This isn't actually anything complex or new either, it's something that's been in there since the early days and it is something that is still applied to the game as well. Also notice it doesn't pull this pattern as an incredibly fast stream, which is why they do it in the first place. (As an aside, I can FC this just fine doing all the spins in this chart, which there are a lot of, and at the beginning there actually is a double-step. I've tried to see if it was possible without the double-step but unless you start the chart playing backwards you will have to. Maybe that's intentional?)

I know people don't play this way because most are trying to get as high of a score as possible and doing anything complex like this hurts them (but then again so do the most basic of crossovers from what I've seen) but it is there and probably completely intentional. What is bad about it at all is that they never ever explain this in any of the games period, which I feel would make things clearer if that is the case.

You can play in a way that avoids these but it can be the unintentional way to play, and I think that's the point of anyone defending no-double-stepping? I don't know. I defend it simply because I don't care about getting high scores other than for my own progress, and even then I've chilled out on that so I can relax and play the game rather than get angry I got a single great on a song for the third time. Plus a lot of charts have opened up due to me recognizing spins at the mere sight of them and makes even simple charts like Think Ya Better D more fun to me.

I'm not against any way of playing but I will say it is much more entertaining watching someone play the patterns this way over putting their feet on the corners of the pad and barely moving them just to get another high score.

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Have you ever read the title of a thread and known exactly what was inside without entering?

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Yeah, but the thread was titled THE RHYTHM GAMER COMMUNITY RANT.

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@ffxin00b
While I would prefer to stay out of these archaic play style debates, the way you've been conducting yourself in this thread has been rather concerning. With all due respect, please reconsider how and what you write to others. First, you titled this thread as "No Bar DDR" and then proceeded to say "doublestepping doesn't count, it's illegitimate". Your title is just misleading to say the least. It's fine to argue about your preferred style of play, but you consistently insist that "it's the way it should be done" and "it's unfair because other people play differently and win in tournaments because they use what I call a handicap". Dude, you brought up the whole "tournaments" thing to begin with. And then you write this, which completely goes against all of that:

Alright, I think that scratches the surface.
wrsw was actually giving you real answers to your questions, but answered them separately. Appreciate what people give you as answers, or if you believe they didn't answer it properly, rephrase your question. As for my answer to no bar AND no double-stepping, I've seen FEFEMZ AAA 888 S- with all the appropriate footwork.


I gotta agree with Quickman here. It's like saying there's no such thing as lottery winners because you don't personally know anyone that won a lottery before.

Here's post #21, written by you:
Didn't you just write that you also acknowledged holding the bar and double-stepping as valid forms of play as well in what I underlined? This quote seems to say otherwise.

If you're talking about 1:01~1:10, look carefully. He's actually doing footswitches on the last jackhammer, which isn't double-stepping at all. While you do not deserve insults for writing that, you're equally guilty of calling someone an idiot for thinking he's not double-stepping. Please, let's be civil here. That's what you were going for, correct?

Read your second sentence and see if this doesn't apply to you. You initially appear to say that you just want people to acknowledge that your play style is different. But then you immediately go on to bash how others play the game.
"And I'm god damn amazing at the way I play". "Whole point of this thread was to find out where I stand..."

I'm sorry, but no. This has to stop. Congratulations on being possibly one of the best out there, but at this point you really are just boasting about how good you are with that. Okay, I'm done. I hope you improve on how you write to others from now on. I'm sure you can, judging from your other posts. Can we do it? Good.

This is completely unrelated.
I wish you were right, DigitalBasic. I wish you were...


I will happily applaud anyone who can avoid double-stepping these completely.

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Note, when I said that EGOISM 440 was the hardest song that could be done no double-step, I meant as in "this is the hardest song that could be done without double-stepping", not that it has been done. EGOISM 440 CSP without double-stepping is possible - it's not a chart that requires you double-step everywhere and your feet, as almost all of the steps in that (and, most importantly, the high-speed streams) are designed so that they can be relatively easily alternate-stepped. If only OT'P' and VD had streams like that..., they'd actually be kind of fun

The charts that are harder (other 19's exclusively) are legit impossible without double stepping. I've tested in half-speed - it's simply not possible. Go on, alternate-step VD or OT'P'. I dare you to try.

Anyways, the debate about double-stepping is even worse than the debate about no bar, simply because some charts are simply not possible without double stepping, whereas you can claim that any technique possible with bar is technically doable (just with better balance) without it, so at least the no bar (which is still completely silly, by the way) argument makes some level of sense.

This doesn't.
P.S. We'd all be happier if you didn't bring your ego into this.
P.P.S. Also, I probably shouldn't involve myself in a thread that's just an argument of this nature, but oh well, but I wanted to clarify what I meant in my previous comment.

EDIT: I take a risk linking this (it's tv tropes, be warned), but it's incredibly relevant: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub

ITT: A person who sucks at dance games so he needs to create arbitrary rules such that he creates a category that he and only he excels at it.

I guarantee you I'm better than you at no bar, not doublestepping, 1x vivid, SSR, whatever. Stop acting like you're hot shit when you're not.

Remember when we renamed that thread to ITT: Bolt-Edge wins the internet?

Think we need to do the same for this one, except ICNH instead of Bolt-Edge.

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First off, respect to those that didn't come at my throat. Seriously, love you guys.

I'm aware that doublestepping and holding the bar is essential for playing those harder songs. What I'm saying is that for me, that's not the game I'm playing. & if you think I'm just making this shit up, may I point you to the console games:

DDR MAX for the PS2 did not come with a bar. I learned to play on the PS2 dance pad with no bar. I never learned any other way.



The thing is, people here don't realize just how good you can be without double-stepping and without holding the bar. People don't realize you can practically FC 17s without having to keep your feet in the middle of the pad. People claim that people who hold the bar can do what I do, but I'm telling you with experience, that they can't. People who hold the bar and play 17s or whatever end up barely passed 12s and 13s without the bar.


Dancing in this game without holding the bar, and actually moving your knees, akin to riverdancing almost, is actually very fun, very challenging and is also more fun for spectators to watch. You feel the music more, you respond physically to the music. You are moving your entire body. I have heard so many people tell me after watching me play "Why the hell was everyone else holding the bar?" And I would explain it's part of the culture, and they would just be like "That's the stupidest shit ever". And I defended you guys!! For the record.


What's annoying to me about this is I tried my damndest not to have this thread degenerate into the way it did. I know that not many people play the way I do. I know this. But it was Y'ALL that fired the shots about how my playstyle was bullshit. The vids you linked to WERE doublestepping. I'm not trolling other people's threads and saying 'Who cares if he got AAA+ MFC, he wasn't even moving his feet" But people felt the need to come here and do that.

Frankly, if you can't play the way I play, don't come in a thread that's not your playstyle trying to cognitive dissonance yourself like "Oh yeah, it's not that impressive." Shut up!! Seriously!! No one asked you! I don't care what you think about how 'fringe' my playstyle is. I'm a beast at it and everyone claiming they can dance like I dance are full of shit. I would looooove if there were otehrs playing like me. I have no problem if I'm the worst no-bar-no-DS player in the world!! I just wanted to have a thread to bring together those who DO play this way.

But what I realized is the community is too hostile becuase I think it strikes a nerve. The truth is it's a very difficult way to play, compared to the handicap that is keeping yourself balanced with a bar, and the one step further of never moving your feet beyond the center of the pad. It is soooo much more interesting, fun and challenging to actually DANCE without inhibition. Don't tell me it's not and don't tell me my playstyle isn't valid when I none of you can last more than 10 minutes against me.

A) Please stop masturbating in this thread.

B) You're so beast?

Spin the Disc no-bar: 32p PFC
Max 300 no-bar: 5g FC
EGOISM 440 Challenge no-bar: passed with shit score, but passed

Suck my robot cock.

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Also literally the first sentence I said in the thread was this:


Is there any point in making a meet-up group or hosting a competition where people don't hold the bar or double-step?

It's not my fault people can't read.

I literally said in my first post on the thread here that no, there is no point.

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Dude shut the fuck up. This is my god damn thread. Get your double-stepping bullshit out of it.


Yeah you're not God. Get off your high horse.

Not on any high-horse. You asked a question, I answered. Fucking deal with it.

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Just for the record, I never bashed the no-bar argument, I only bashed the double-step argument simply because no double-step isn't possible on the majority of charts. Most charts contain at least one, so stop acting like double-stepping is a DDR sin - it is an expectation (hell, even MAX 300, considered the best chart in DDR history, has precisely one).

EDIT: And for the record, most soft-pad players play no bar simply because soft pads don't come with bars - trust me, there's a reason no one tries VDO on DDR II, it's because soft pads simply can't handle that kind of chart (there's a few exceptions, but those are exceptions, not the norm).

That's what I don't get too. No-bar play is fine, but going "I DON'T DOUBLESTEP SO I'M BETTER THAN YOU" is so cringeworthy i'm fairly sure I died a little inside reading it.

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Look, I understand I'm out-numbered here and anything I say will be used against me, etc etc. So I've said my peace and that's that. Obviously not many people are playing the way I do. Whatever.

But don't delude yourself into thinking that double-stepping and holding the bar easily translate to actually dancing for real.

You can say whatever you want, but don't lie to yourself. When you to lie to the internet, you lie to yourself. Don't lie to yourself.

Feel free to PM me if you happen to see this thread in the distant future and want to compare scores / techniques / discuss what you think the hardest song to do without bar/ds. The current four 19 Challenge songs are obviously ridiculous without a handicap, but surprisingly the 18s beneath it can be done.

Oh Fuck You HATERZZZZ lololol quickman

this game isn't about dancing for real, it stopped being that a long time ago

also saying "fuck you" is very mature and makes you look so much better coming out of that post, good job fam :)

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I'm reading it as "I'm better than you at doing a song without doublestepping," not "I'm better than you at DDR." Calm down? And it was probably sort of dragged out of him out of frustration rather than he actually believes it.

Yes, a lot of songs can be done without doublestepping, but it's so rooted in my instincts I personally would get DQed doing it on accident or something, so I'd lose that quickly. Statistically, he probably is better than a lot of people at not doublestepping.

BUT maybe I just have a terrible doublestepping habit, I dunno.

And there IS a point to a no-bar tournament. We clearly had one. It was a gimmick tournament. Gimmick tournaments are a thing, like no mods or something else few people would actually do. It's just not a test of all-around DDR skills.

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As a side note, can we stop slinging hostility to each other? ._.

(I mean... there's nothing I can do about it, but come on...)