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Need technical help with DDR

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Post #1 · Posted at 2010-01-14 08:41:10am 12.7 years ago

Offline chosebine1200
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Hello everyone.

I learned a lot after reading the flashcard problem thread. Thanx to Chi's detailed knowledge. But I have a different problem.
I have an error message on a DDR cabinet (GX-700) with the Extreme version CD and T shape cassette. (bootleg ? I don't know)

ONBOARD CHECKSUM BAD...
31M BAD 31L BAD 31J BAD 31H BAD
27M BAD 27L BAD 27J BAD 27H BAD

PCCARD2 OK

Exclaimation Sign ERROR 132

Cassette error (2)

I have swapped all parts with another cabinet with same version. And all parts work expept the main board. (same error)
I purchased a GX-700 from channelbeat, thinking it would solved my problem, but it did not. (same error)
I have only basic electronic formation. All this software protection is beyond me. Maybe I can learn. Tia.

Post #2 · Posted at 2010-01-14 07:31:17pm 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Hi there,

First thing to establish is whether this is legit or a bootleg unit (as the solution will depend on this). Can you take a picture of the security cassette (the T-shaped one), and also of the GX700 inside the System 573 unit, like this:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3381/3424776410_452c0931cd_b.jpg

In specific, I need to see the socketed chip/circuit board.

With this information, we can then help you better to solve this.

For the record, from the 5thMIX manual:
Quote
症状: 起動時に、次のメッセージが表示されて停止した。
「Error 132: カセットエラー(#)」
ERROR 136, または186と表示される?合もあります。
考えられる原因と確認個所: *本製品のセキュリティカセットが故障、またわ破損した。
対処: *直ちに主電源スイッチを切り、コンセントから電源プラグを抜いて最寄りの[コナミ サービスセンター]までご連絡ください。
Quote: "My poor translation"
Symptoms: On startup, it halts and displays the following message:
"ERROR 132: Cassette Error (#)"
(Or it also displays ERROR 136 or 186)
Possible cause: The security tape of the product is damaged and has failed.
Action: Immediately turn off the main power switch and unplug the power cable. Contact your nearest outlet [Konami Service Center].

"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #3 · Posted at 2010-01-14 08:33:13pm 12.7 years ago

Offline NeoRevenG
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"Secret Agent"
My local gamecentre that called TimeZone has problem with DDR Extreme hybrid from 3rd Mix.

It has video BG problem that only 1% of all video BG appear on all songs.

That means, that DDR just like StepMania.

(AFRONOVA on that machine has lost all video BG, still remaining BG wallpaper)

(But for Speed Over Beethoven , only heart .avi appear in middle section and looping around & around)



Not only TZ has that problem, another gamecentre on my country that called Stingers has same problem too.

Especially for Percussion Freaks 9th Mix. (It has lost some songs like MODEL DD2, Herring Roe, etc)

When i saw the booting screen, i only saw division 7 status (Sorry, i don't remember the name) = Not Found (Yellow letter)

How to solve that problem ? Confused






http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w73/DJjeff2007/NeoRevenG.pnghttp://zenius-i-vanisher.com/pictures/2909-1242408837%5B0%5D.jpg

Post #4 · Posted at 2010-01-14 08:45:35pm 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Quote: NeoRevenG
My local gamecentre that called TimeZone has problem with DDR Extreme hybrid from 3rd Mix.

It has video BG problem that only 1% of all video BG appear on all songs.

That means, that DDR just like StepMania.

(AFRONOVA on that machine has lost all video BG, still remaining BG wallpaper)

(But for Speed Over Beethoven , only heart .avi appear in middle section and looping around & around)

Sounds like it's just a really bad bootleg (or maybe even running Stepmania with an Extreme theme Tongue).

I'd need more information about the startup error - can you get the full text (or better still, a picture)?
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #5 · Posted at 2010-01-14 08:57:59pm 12.7 years ago

Offline NeoRevenG
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"Secret Agent"
No, it's not Stepmania.

It's really DDR Extreme but lost 99% video BG.

And fully unlocked, though. (Sakura, Paranoia Survivor MAX, etc on beginning) Confused

Maybe next time when i going to TZ i will checked the full text.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w73/DJjeff2007/NeoRevenG.pnghttp://zenius-i-vanisher.com/pictures/2909-1242408837%5B0%5D.jpg

Post #6 · Posted at 2010-01-14 09:23:33pm 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Quote: NeoRevenG
No, it's not Stepmania.

It's really DDR Extreme but lost 99% video BG.

And fully unlocked, though. (Sakura, Paranoia Survivor MAX, etc on beginning) Confused

Maybe next time when i going to TZ i will checked the full text.

I was joking about it being Stepmania... however, whilst on that topic you do realise Beware's Extreme is reasonably tricky to distinguish from the real thing (aside from the boot sequence)?

My money would be on either it being a bad bootleg of Extreme (not all bootlegs are the same - there are lots of buggy ones out there), or else the CD being damaged and failing to read the movie data files (again, if you see errors on booting, let me know the precise text).
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #7 · Posted at 2010-01-15 07:26:13am 12.7 years ago

Offline chosebine1200
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Here is a picture of the ass'y. For more details use the link to the Flickr set.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/4275401492_a3acf29182_o_d.jpg


http://www.flickr.com/photos/28574984@N06/sets/72157623086980545/show/

It's a relief to get help. Thank you

Post #8 · Posted at 2010-01-15 07:49:39am 12.7 years ago

Offline neodude237
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Bootleg.

Post #9 · Posted at 2010-01-15 08:49:24am 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Indeed, sadly it's a bootleg (almost every DDR EXTREME outside of Japan is, to be honest). In this context, the error you have usually means that either the bootleg EPROM (the circuit board towards the right, just behind the USB socket and Dip switches) has become defective.

I'm not sure how much I can say on this forum - Mods: if I overstep the mark by speaking about bootlegged System 573 images, please let me know. I figure that since we are talking about 8 year old games that were never officially released in the US or EU, it's less of a moral issue, but...

You could buy another bootleg upgrade kit, but I wouldn't recommend it (not least because it's giving money to pirates). Instead, the simplest solution is to get a new Boot ROM (the chip is marked 700A01), and then find and install a bootleg CD image that doesn't need a modchip[*]. For reference, a legit boot ROM is the small IC in this auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Konami-DDR-Dance-Dance-Revolution-3rd-Mix-IC-Disk-Key_W0QQitemZ110443811295QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b6f6d1df

(The security cassette and CD is garbage, though - they are uniquely tied to the System 573 unit they were first installed on).

JU707 on eBay often has a few of these lying around for a reasonable price, you might want to drop him a message to ask: http://myworld.ebay.com/ju707/

Alternatively, if you have access to any Konami System 573 board (Fisherman's Bait, Hyper Bishi Bashi, various Drummania and Guitar Freaks), they all use this chip (unless bootlegged as well).

Once you have restored your System 573 to original parts, there is a bootlegged CD of DDR Extreme that will install on a standard System 573 Digital machine without any hardware modification. It's two CDs, totalling 1.22GB of data. Once you have the disk images, it's just a matter of burning them to CD, sticking in the install disk, waiting for 20 mins, then swapping in the play disk. You may find that you need a replacement CD-Rom drive (older and/or broken CD-Rom drives tend to fail on reading CD-Rs long before reading pressed CDs), but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

-----
HANG ON A SEC (EDIT): One of the other GX700 board you picture on your Flickr account has an original 700A01 ROM - swap this chip into your board instead of the existing bootleg EPROM board (it's the only socketed chip, and is totally missing in the third GX700 board you picture).

Either way, it's still definitely a bootleg though, it has a 3rdMIX security cassette, and the serial number of the cassette doesn't match any of the three motherboards, nor the Digital I/O daughterboard.
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #10 · Posted at 2010-01-15 09:39:30am 12.7 years ago

Offline Mercury
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These single-mix modboards are BAD, do yourself a favour and throw it away. If the EPROM chip is compatible, you could burn the legit BIOS to it using a programmer. The BIOS image is in Mame so use Google to find that.

Just for the record, I own a Bemani System 573 board myself and all the hardware in it is legit including the boot ROM. Heck, it even comes complete with a legit DDR 4thMIX PLUS game for great justice, which I simply haven't got round to reinstalling yet because I sold my supergun to a friend and because I need a DDR cabinet to play it. Tongue

tl;dr
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z74/deepblue0/modboard.jpg <-- GET RID OF THIS CHIP
http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/ddrsig/1229.png?t=1299671484

Post #11 · Posted at 2010-01-15 09:55:03am 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Quote: Mercury
Heck, it even comes complete with a legit DDR 4thMIX PLUS game for great justice

Aah. I miss that board. It was in good nick, too!
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #12 · Posted at 2010-01-15 12:17:04pm 12.7 years ago

Offline chosebine1200
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Ok Chi

I'll get on that. And I'll get back with news.

thanx a million Big Grin

Post #13 · Posted at 2010-01-15 05:20:28pm 12.7 years ago

Offline Mercury
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Quote: Chi
Quote: Mercury
Heck, it even comes complete with a legit DDR 4thMIX PLUS game for great justice

Aah. I miss that board. It was in good nick, too!

Believe it or not Chi it still is in good condition!
I added a blanking plate to go on it so the Extreme CD is nice and safe inside, while the security cartridge is sitting untouched in a drawer in an anti-static bag with the 4th+ CD sitting neatly in a jewel case.

God I want to play 4th+ but only if my local arcade permits me to put my 573 back into their Korean cab again Tongue
http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/ddrsig/1229.png?t=1299671484

Post #14 · Posted at 2010-01-15 05:58:50pm 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Quote: chosebine1200
I'll get on that. And I'll get back with news.

Don't forget - your existing CD won't work (and it's a bootleg even though it looks printed and official), you'll need to find one of the modchipless bootlegs.

Quote: Mercury
God I want to play 4th+ but only if my local arcade permits me to put my 573 back into their Korean cab again Tongue

4thMIX PLUS has a great songlist, but I hate the interface (mainly the fact it takes 10 years to scroll through the songlist). IIRC the only two songs that are on it that aren't on another arcade mix are LOVE and NIGHT IN MOTION, too.
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #15 · Posted at 2010-01-15 11:21:21pm 12.7 years ago

Offline Mercury
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Hero (Happy Grandale Mix) is another exclusive I guess.
http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/ddrsig/1229.png?t=1299671484

Post #16 · Posted at 2010-01-15 11:43:49pm 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Quote: Mercury
Hero (Happy Grandale Mix) is another exclusive I guess.

It's also on 5thMIX, isn't it? Along with the KCP remix. I haven't played 5th for a while, so I might be mistaken.
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #17 · Posted at 2010-01-16 12:11:34am 12.7 years ago

Offline yuky2k7
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"OBEDECE...DESU~ º w º"
ok, yesterday I went to my friend's local arcade and talked about the 573 that'll arrive in a couple of weeks, so we discussed about the main chips that are on the board, I mean the EEPROM, my friend showed my one of these from the 3rdmix version, well I think that for all versions are the same but according to the actual boards, you only have to install the version you want to play to overwrite the previous data and then change it to the game disc (e.g from 3rdmix to 5thmix or max2)
My friend has a doubt becuase he thinks that EACH VERSION HAS A RESPECTIVE EEPROM APART FROM THEIR DISCS OR BLUE CARTRIDGES like 3RDMIX HAS A EEPROM, EXTREME HAS ITS OWN AND THEN 5THMIX, if I adquire something like this I'll be fulfilled apart from cds with microchips.
I don't know whether it's true or not that I have to pop out the cd and install the version I want without changing that chip per version, or else what do I need for that, I followed from this source
http://www.nogshot.com/ddrbase/guides/install_eeprom.html
My friend needs an explanation for that before he changes the pcb from his ddr extreme damaged, and the main reason why it doesn't work fine is about one those EEPROM's, maybe one is damaged because during any play it lags or gets an black screen error, specially when playing in Heavy Mode
Can you explain more about the legimate EEPROM functions (that my friend owns) and what do I have to replace exactly for changing to any version?

Post #18 · Posted at 2010-01-16 01:00:47am 12.7 years ago

Offline Chi
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Your friend is partly right, partly mistaken and partly out of date.

For legitimate DDR mixes, all the mixes have the same boot ROM - a Konami 700A01. With your legitimate upgrade kit, you would remove the old security cassette and plug in a new (and blank) one, and insert the new CD. The game would install to RAM, and at the end write the serial number of your System 573 (well technically the serial number of the Digital I/O board) onto the blue cartridge - this is a one-time write, you cannot wipe or rewrite these cassettes. However, this isn't the case with bootleg mixes...

I see you've linked to Zash's guide - it's good stuff (and was invaluable a year ago or so), but pre-dates the existence of modchipless bootlegs - bootlegs that do not require any modification of the System 573 Digital hardware.

Brief history lesson on common bootlegs for arcade DDR mixes

Bootlegged DDR machines are invariably System 573 Digital-hardware based (the other knock-off machines are silly stuff like a PS2-in-a-cab running a home version with a timer). There are not yet - to my knowledge - any working bootlegs of Python 2 (SuperNOVA, SuperNOVA 2) or BemaniPC-based DDR (DDR X, DDR X2).

System 573 Digital was cracked very early on (it takes only a few dozen bytes of patching to remove the security cassette checks), but bootleggers added their own protection to the bootlegs (As otherwise people would not buy their bootlegs, they'd just copy the install CDs and be done with it). The solution they found was the mod chip - they would make their customers install the game, and then afterwards replace the boot ROM of the System 573 with a custom circuit of their own design (with an EPROM benig the central part of these boards), and then code in checks for this custom circuit - no custom circuit, no booting. These chips were indeed as you describe... one chip for each mix you want to install. Thus they were single mix modchips, and you could typically recognise them by the fact that the install and game CD would be the same disk (if the original boot ROM is in => force install, if the single mix modchip is in => game mode). Back in the day we thought these chips were needed to bypass the on-board security, when in fact they were quite the opposite.

This reached a peak with DDR EXTREME (released back in Dec 2002) - the bootlegging was so widespread that almost every machine outside of Japan is a bootlegged upgrade (unlike earlier mixes which were very often grey imported). Of course, EXTREME (as with 5thMIX, MAX and MAX 2) was only released in Japan, and it was the very final System 573 digital release of DDR.

There were no USA or EU mixes at this time; the last EU mix was EuroMIX 2, in the summer of 2002, some 6 months before. For the USA, it was DDR USA back in October 2000. No new arcade DDR games of any kind would be distributed to these regions until Dancing Stage Fusion (April 2005) for the EU, and DanceDance Revolution SuperNOVA (September 2006) for the USA. Indeed, the next Japanese mix would be DanceDance Revolution SuperNOVA in July 2006. This paved the way for dodgy bootlegs like DDR EXTREME+ and DDR MEGAMIX (both of which were mildly hacked DDR EXTREMEs, masqueraded as sequels by the bootleggers).

Around this time (perhaps a little earlier), there also appeared a different variety of modchip - one that could run a wide variety of different mixes and appeared to be compatible with each other - this is the multimix mod chip - I still own one of these, and it's a shoddy piece of kit that cost me £250 about a year ago. This modchip could be used with any multi-mix modchip bootleg (which includes things like Dancing Stage feat. Disney's Rave), and you could usually recognise them because they came with two CDs - a separate game and install CD.

A few years later, there were rumours of a different type of DDR EXTREME - one that did not require any modchip at all. The most famous is a two disk set that works perfectly... except if you try to access the "Game Options" menu which will reboot the machine. These are the modchipless bootlegs. In the past year, flawless (and freely distributed - sod giving pirates money that they haven't earned) modchipless bootlegs have been created for:

DanceDance Revolution 3rdMIX (ver.JAPAN)
DanceDance Revolution 3rdMIX (ver.KOREA 2)
DanceDance Revolution 4thMIX PLUS
DanceDance Revolution 5thMIX
DDRMAX ~DanceDance Revolution 6thMIX~
DDRMAX 2 ~DanceDance Revolution 7thMIX~
DanceDance Revolution EXTREME
DanceDance Revolution Solo 2000
Dancing Stage EuroMIX
Dancing Stage EuroMIX 2


Now, the thing is that if you own a single mix bootlegged-System 573, the modchip will stop you form installing and running any other mix. Thus, these disks will only work if you either have a multimix modchip, or (better still) if you have a System 573 with the original Konami Boot ROM. You can tell this quite easily - it's the only socketed chip inside the 573, and it bears the product number "700A01":
One with original ROM:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3381/3424776410_452c0931cd.jpg
One with bootleg modchip/EPROM board:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2424/3671385402_49828d4de0.jpg

Nowadays, there is only one bootlegged DDR mix that requires a modchip. That is Dancing Stage feat. Disney's Rave.

Quote
maybe one is damaged because during any play it lags or gets an black screen error, specially when playing in Heavy Mode

Now this sounds like a different problem - the screen blacking out and the game rebooting is often the symptom of a faulty power supply - and lagging is a symptom of the unit overheating (it was the inspiration for Paranoia Survivor - the game freezes for a short while, and the suddenly processes the rest of the steps at an accelerated rate for the next few seconds).
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004

Post #19 · Posted at 2010-01-16 01:21:35pm 12.6 years ago

Offline chosebine1200
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http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4277562127_6bb1aac358_o_d.jpg

It's coming Big Grin

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2719/4277581375_16359582d1_o_d.jpg

Big GrinBig GrinLaughing HardLaughing Hard It's alive !!!


There is no bowing smilly.... or I would have used it Wink

Thank you so much. It's late here... catch you later.

Post #20 · Posted at 2010-01-16 01:48:44pm 12.6 years ago

Offline Chi
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Yay! I love a happy ending. Big Grin Glad it worked out for you!
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004
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