The Hardest Song: ITG v. DDR.

I've heard that ITG was spawned from people who thought that DDR was too easy and wanted to make songs that would kill people. Then Konami scrapped ITG in a lawsuit and no more bodies were found. At that point, Konami then decided to kill people too.

So, who has the hardest song and what is it?

Note that when debating, foot ratings mean nothing when comparing ITG to DDR. DDR has stuff that makes 12 footers look like 9's nowadays anyway. Try not to focus on mines or hands too much either.

The List from Hell (from what I've seen)

Vertex^2
Pandemonium
Summer -Speedy Mix-
Vertex
Determinator
Euphoria

The OTHER List from Hell

Fascination ~eternal love mix~
Fascination MAXX
PARANOiA HADES
Healing-D-Vision
PARANOiA Survivor MAX
Pluto Relinquish

Debate NAOW.

If you feel that another song has claimed lives, feel free to speak out about them too

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StrangeProgram. Makes FELMO look like a walk in the park. It's a combination of the PRE death run, and the FELMO jump stream, except more unrelenting. 16ths and 8th jumps at 215 simply haven't been matched by anything else I've seen, except Hall of the Mountain King, which gets somewhat faster, but isn't as unrelenting.

From the list you gave:
Pandemonium beats PHO pants down. Faster, more unrelenting streams, enough that I think it would make up for the lack of crossovers.
Summer beats Pandemonium for speed, but isn't as unrelenting.

I haven't watched the others enough to really be familiar with them.

From what I've seen, the high end DDR songs are pretty much "murder you at the end" style, often giving a significant break in the middle, if the beginning was harsh, where the ITG songs murder you in one way in the beginning, another way in the middle, and again the first way at the end, without the rest break. Look at the DDR songs you listed. They all start relatively easy, and stay that way for a fair portion of the song. They all have easy parts in the middle to give you a break. Look at the ITG songs. Unrelenting beasts, they never give up. You will be hammered into submission. You will never have more than 2-3 beats to rest between streams. Just look at the step counts for the various songs. The *least* of the ITG songs you listed has more steps than FAXX.

So I say the ITG songs are harder, no contest.

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ITG is harder, especially with Summer ~Speedy Mix~(16th note runs at 185bpm = 8th note runs at 370). Nothing can really beat that unless it's unofficial r21 stuff.

nuf said.

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Determinator's 24th runs at 147 (8th runs at 441 BPM ,16th runs at 220.5 BPM) are even more chaotic, but less frequent.

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Quote: Oni-91
Determinator's 24th runs at 147 (8th runs at 441 BPM ,16th runs at 220.5 BPM) are even more chaotic, but less frequent.

Everything else in that song is a cake walk

And I don't know if the ITG3 13's and singular 12 should be included or not...

Disconnected Hardkore
Pink Fuzzy Bunnies
Hasse Mich
Dream to Nightmare

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Seriously, I think that some of the newer songs in DDR can contend with Pandemonium. Sure, Pandemonium is just pure hell while offering very little mines and no hands but PARANOiA Hades can give it a run for its money.

Vertex^2 however... there's something horribly demonic with the song after the freeze arrow. I can't tell if the run at 555(?) bpm is 8th notes or 12th notes.

I did manage to pass it on the keyboard with the mines on at 1x ;D

Pandemonium DOES has calm points even if they don't seem that way. Most of those songs that I've listed from ITG have calm points in them. The main reason why the songs have massive stepcounts is because they are around 2 minutes long.

Let's not talk about user-created stuff here. ANYTHING can be turned into a stepchart. It could be the end result of eating Mexican, your cat spitting up, or a hour long rave party song.

How many new songs have 12/13 foot step charts if ITG3 came out? I'd like a file for them too :3

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"Let's not talk about user-created stuff here."
Uh, doesn't that cut out ITG then? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it done by people who were users of DDR?

Anway, here's a vid of the screen while someone does Strangeprogram with the bar. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ik0Pee3-Z5I

Yes, the fact that it's 2 minutes does make a difference. After all, FELM PR and PH are only 1:40. But I think the ITG ones really are harder. I'll go home tonight and play them all on music x0.5, and see what leaves me more hammered, and what I score better on.
Honestly, with the half speed, I expect to pass FELMO with few problems. 4th jumps at 200 haven't been a problem for a long time. Similar for PHO, though I expect to miss a fair number of the step-jumps, due to facing the wrong way. PRO will be trivial until the end, which at half speed shouldn't be that much worse than HVAM or R&P. HDVO will just be like R&P or BBD, but a little faster. PSMO will be reduced to a warmup song.
On the other side of the ring: I expect the long streams of Summer and Pandemonium to wear me down, until I give up, maybe 3/4ths through the song. If the 24ths of Determinator are significantly complex, they'll probably toss me right out. Running around at 441 is not easy, though I've done an Eternus (long version) chart that had me running at 420 for ~25 seconds in the beginning and ~55 seconds at the end.

I think you're failing to take into account the massive difference that exhaustion makes. The more tired you get, the harder it is to handle the complex stuff and move quickly. Thus, the unrelenting factor makes the ITG charts harder.

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Quote: FELMDemon
Vertex^2 however... there's something horribly demonic with the song after the freeze arrow. I can't tell if the run at 555(?) bpm is 8th notes or 12th notes.

I believe they're 6ths


ITG is still harder, but DDR is catching up pretty quick. DDR isn't as easy as much of the ITG fanbase makes it sound I've noticed...


Also StrangeProgram isn't an ITG level. It's being played on an r21 machine, but that doesn't make it official. It counts as a Stepmania level. If you count THOSE than the hardest level ever would be Chik Habit or The Impossible Song 3.

DDR is getting harder, but mostly with the boss songs. The gap between 9s and 10s on DDR is huge, but on ITG, there are plenty of songs in that gap.

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That is true. DDR needs to fix that.

The thing is MOST of the ITG songs have a challenge chart and are 9/10 footers. They get very repetitive too.

I'm just saying that PARANOiA Hades, the Fascination Twins, and Pluto Relinquish have closed the gap between DDR and ITG significantly. I do factor in Stamina. That's why I said that PHO > PRO and FELMO > PRO. PRO is fairly simple in the beginning and strikes with force at the end while the other two wear you down fast.

ITG isn't exactly user-made either. It still has the "default" songlist to the user-made songlist.

So are we saying that Pandemonium is the hardest song period or are we just ignoring Vertex^2? ;)

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Vertex^2 isn't good enough musically for me to watch it as much as Pandy. I'm putting off my final judgement until I've carried out my plan. I'll be back Monday.

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It's hard to tell which is harder between Pandy and V^2. Pandy is lots and lots of stamina death all the way through, while V^2 is really easy at some points and mind numbingly hard (harder than Pandy) at others.

It's a shame that Konami didn't wait till ITG3 came out before they killed it. I'm very curious what VVV and Hasse Mich's Expert charts would've looked like.

Haven't they already been made, and are circulating the Net, if you can find them? And I thought Hasse mich was only a 12 on Expert?

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http://www.jeffrey1790.com/stepmania/?dir=./Simfiles/In%20The%20Groove
Has something labeled "ITG3", though I haven't downloaded it myself to look inside. Too big a chunk for me to download all at once at work. >_>

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Downloading now. I'll keep you posted.

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I downloaded the ITG3 Simfile pack, but i thought something said they weren't the official steps but only the songs.

In the pack the 13's were

Disconnected Hardkore
Pink Fuzzy Bunnies
Hasse Mich (although i think the pack origianlly had it as an 11 but later added a 13 chart)


Also from looking at Pump Pro, it was apparent that Vertex^3 (called VVV) was probably goin to be in ITG3 (and i assume a 13). Listening to the song, that would've made a killer level.

It seems from a bit of checking that the only official steps were Disconnected Zeo, Frozen Fire and Esperanza...

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Quote: Oni-91
It seems from a bit of checking that the only official steps were Disconnected Zeo, Frozen Fire and Esperanza...

From what I found out, all the stuff in the ITG3 pack was what was finished up to the point where they released the first beta right before the end of the lawsuit, so I'm pretty sure that those charts are official, even the uncompleted ones. And even with those new 13's and 12, I still think Summer ~Speedy Mix~ is possibly the hardest. C'mon... look at all that 16th note run action at 185. When converted to 8th runs, it would sit at 370, which is faster than Pandy. And Vertex^2 is only difficult because of all those mines... but this is only my opinion.

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I actually AA'd Summer -speedy mix-...

On the keyboard

I sort of agree with you. The ending is one nasty stream, connected by a jump stream, and finishes off with another lengthy stream.

Vertex^2 speeds up though and the ending is just devastating, even without mines.

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