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Future of simfile competitions

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Post #21 · Posted at 2017-01-27 04:38:50pm 2.8 years ago

Offline Quickman
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I like the idea of War Games, I guess. Just a couple things that I'd change. For one, having "leaders" is... eugh.
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Post #22 · Posted at 2017-01-27 04:59:12pm 2.8 years ago

Offline Oni-91
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I think I'd switch out the ToI and the Sim Shuffle for one year. Here's what I'd do:

- War Games II. Not sure how I'd tweak it, but it'd need to be tweaked. If we're not having leaders, have the groups set up through private Discord groups or something?
- Replace the ToI with a one-shot tournament. You get ONE file, but you get a month to make it the best damn file you can.
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Post #23 · Posted at 2017-01-27 07:28:53pm 2.8 years ago

Offline xRGTMx
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Quote: Oni-91
- Replace the ToI with a one-shot tournament. You get ONE file, but you get a month to make it the best damn file you can.

Yo, I would be down for this one. This sounds like a fun concept.
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Post #24 · Posted at 2017-01-27 08:57:00pm 2.8 years ago

Offline Pandemonium X
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Last updated: 2017-01-27 08:58pm
Quote: CuzcoBlocko
Hi.

I've noticed that there might be a fundamental problem with how the simfiles competitions on this site work.

A: The same three ideas have been being reused 3 years in a row. The idea of all of them are good, but... I don't know, I feel like there should be something different once in a while.
B: We have a requirement where you have to make Light, Standard, and Heavy charts, but a large majority of the voters only ever look at Heavy and Challenge. Either it has to be required to take a look at the lower difficulties or nix Light and Standard being necessary altogether.
C: Votes and steppers aren't anonymous. Especially in the past two contests, I've been starting to suspect this is a big problem.
A: To be fair, no one is stopping you from doing a contest. One thing I've thought about doing is starting TOI in February, SC in April-late July, and then having another tournament style playoff in late July, early August that would be the top 16 or so users playing to see who wins SC. This way there will be some interests in the later rounds and we would be done by the time school starts for people. Feed back on this idea is welcomed. I do want to try something new but I don't want to change something and then everyone ends up hating it.

B: The reason Light-Heavy is a rule is because then people are not just uploading 800 step Challenge only charts. I also want to have consistency with songs. However I will think about changing this rule.

C: I would in fact love to do this idea so it would knock out any bias for votes. The problem being I have no idea how this would work on ZIv, and users can't use SC as a stepping stone for their other files. If there's a way to do this, I'd be all up for it. The other issue with this is if someone really likes the file and wants to see more of what that artist has, how can they do that if they don't know? My only guess being the simfile artists are shown once voting is done.

Quote: xXMokou98Xx
-Stop enforcing a Light - Heavy minimum. I know DDR did this back in the stone age, we don't need to do this. People don't look at the lower levels, so there's no purpose to them, don't even begin to rationalize their existence. Heavy-Challenge only, enter the modern era.

-Bring back War Games. That was a cool thing. I don't know where it could fit during the year, maybe replace the shuffle with it for a year.

-Reduce the length of everything. Summer Contest, Shuffle, TOI. SC in particular, by the time the last couple weeks come around there's nobody participating due to school or lack of interest.

-Graphics with your comp files would be nice, even if it's just the generic ones cause you weren't able to make a set in time. Even if it's a very simple set of text-on-image or the aforementioned generic graphics made for the comp, that's better than LITERALLY NOTHING.

-I'm not too worried about people being biased when they vote, or at least I would assume most of y'all would know that's not how you vote. Either way, please don't +5 files because you're buddy buddy with the stepper.

-Bring back War Games.
http://i.imgur.com/jpbFJPv.gif
-Already covered.

-War Games was a good idea but it turned into a wreck and it would need some tweaking. Maybe change it where it's more of a battle royal where after each week, the bottom 10% are knocked out and each week it's chopped down until we get to the last 2. That could work, but I think someone else might have to run it. I don't have the free time I did in 2010.

Or what I could do is do this battle royal idea to see who will admin SC, then do TOI as a playoff to see who wins Summer Contest. (The more I think about this, the more I'm liking it).

Late Febuary-March: Battle Royal
April-June: Summer Contest
July-August: TOI (Summer Contest playoff) Very strongly considering this idea.

-Everything felt longer last year because we started way later than normal. TOI might end up having a qualifier round and only the top 16 or so advance. This way the qualifier round gets quite chaotic but in a good way. It would also make TOI much shorter.

-Mostly we've had someone do stock graphics if you could not make your own. However I do see the idea that at least having something is better than nothing. If all else fails, someone else can make graphics for you.

-Voting bias was something I feared about when I started the contest in 2010. The sad thing is that's kind of that nature of the beast and again, if there was away to do anonymous simfiles, I would be all for it.

-I do want to bring back War Games but that was a contest that was confusing as hell and I'm partly ashamed that it went down as sloppy as it it did. I'm trying to forget my mistakes. Tongue

I'm glad to see people asking questions and putting in ideas in wanting make simfile contests better. I want to make them the best they can be, so the feed back is very welcomed. I'll look into making some changes for future contests.

Post #25 · Posted at 2017-01-27 09:43:06pm 2.8 years ago

Offline The Legendary DJXYZ
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Last updated: 2017-01-27 09:43pm
Quote: Pandemonium X
The reason Light-Heavy is a rule is because then people are not just uploading 800 step Challenge only charts. I also want to have consistency with songs. However I will think about changing this rule.

A SOLUTION. (but mind you, it's a djxyz solution, and that means it's either a big hit or a big miss)
1. You are required to step one chart within the difficulty range of, e.g. 6 to 9 on the classic scale.Users are advised to not give you points if said file is not accurately within this range.
2. You are required to have TWO charts per simfile. They can be of any difficulty, though the recommended is Difficult and Expert.
3. These two files should not be similar in difficulty. So no uploading a 7 on Expert, and then an 8 Challenge that's the same file with shock arrows.
Back in business!
New Charts: Summer Contest 2019
https://zenius-i-vanisher.com/simfiles/Z-I-v%20Summer%20Contest%202019/%5BDirections%5D%20-%20Light%20The%20Fire%20Up%20In%20The%20Night/%5BDirections%5D%20-%20Light%20The%20Fire%20Up%20In%20The%20Night.png?t=1558200073 https://zenius-i-vanisher.com/simfiles/Z-I-v%20Summer%20Contest%202019/%5BKeyboardmania%5D%20-%20Phantom%20R%27s%20Theme/%5BKeyboardmania%5D%20-%20Phantom%20R%27s%20Theme.png?t=1558849152

Post #26 · Posted at 2017-01-27 09:47:07pm 2.8 years ago

Offline CuzcoBlocko
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Last updated: 2017-01-27 09:49pm
If there's concerns about uploading ridiculously hard simfiles (something like Braeden47's Sharaku Challenge, I still can't pass that lol), at the very minimum Standard can continue to be a required difficulty. Lately I've been looking at all of the Standard charts as well as the Heavy and available Challenge charts. Still not sure about Light.

Also, one can always use 0.9/0.8/etc. music rate to make stamina-inducing files a bit easier. :P

As for anonymity, this is precisely what I was thinking;

June 5th: Contest starts, people send Round 1 files to a third party
June 12th: Round 2 starts, third party uploads all of the round 1 files and people PM them votes and Round 2 files.
June 19th: The results are revealed, including who stepped what and also who voted for what. Round 3 starts. People PM the third party Round 3 files and Round 2 votes.

Repeat.

Also, I came up with an interesting idea for a simfile contest that could also determine the two hosts for SC, I'll propose it once Simfile Shuffle ends.

Post #27 · Posted at 2017-01-27 11:19:29pm 2.8 years ago

Offline Gameoson
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Gonna add my two cents here:

- I agree with keeping the Light Standard and Heavy requirement for the same reasons Pandemonium X and Lisek have already stated.

- I think most people are honest when they vote, so I don't see anonymous uploads/anonymous voting as really necessary. There's only a couple of cases I can think of where someone blatantly wasn't voting honestly anyways (*cough* simfile shuffle, and even in that case that person was voting solely on the song and not by who's winning/who stepped what. Anonymous voting doesn't do anything to prevent people from just voting on the song and not the steps.)

- Seeing a new kind of simfile contest would be great just to keep things interesting. Too bad I don't really have any good ideas for a new contest or else I'd throw some ideas out.

- I wasn't around for War Games and I haven't looked at the thread to see what it was about, so I can't comment on that. Confused Sounds like it was probably way more convoluted and confusing than it needed to be based on the comments I'm seeing in this thread.

Quote: xXMokou98Xx
-Reduce the length of everything. Summer Contest, Shuffle, TOI. SC in particular, by the time the last couple weeks come around there's nobody participating due to school or lack of interest.

+1 to this. 8 rounds sounds like a good reasonable number. This would also make more room for a potential 4th contest.

Quote: Pandemonium X
One thing I've thought about doing is starting TOI in February, SC in April-late July, and then having another tournament style playoff in late July, early August that would be the top 16 or so users playing to see who wins SC. This way there will be some interests in the later rounds and we would be done by the time school starts for people. Feed back on this idea is welcomed.

+1, but ONLY if SC itself is reduced to 8 weeks. Otherwise if there's 12 weeks of SC and then another 4 weeks of playoffs that's just overkill.

Post #28 · Posted at 2017-01-27 11:39:02pm 2.8 years ago

Offline xXMokou98Xx
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I'm ok with Light and Standard staying, but look at them. If they're required, then when people vote, Heavy/Challenge shouldn't be the only two that ever get looked at. If it's a simfile contest, you judge the whole file, not parts of it. I didn't make those lower charts so they could collect dust and do nothing, at least acknowledge that they exist. [/vent]
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Post #29 · Posted at 2017-01-28 01:07:06am 2.8 years ago

Offline Quickman
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You'll get fuck all people voting if that happens. And then you factor in the occassional doubles charts...
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Post #30 · Posted at 2017-01-28 02:13:51am 2.8 years ago

Offline Telperion
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Quote: xRGTMx
Quote: Oni-91
- Replace the ToI with a one-shot tournament. You get ONE file, but you get a month to make it the best damn file you can.

Yo, I would be down for this one. This sounds like a fun concept.
Also in favor of this. Perhaps with a judging panel, even? (In addition to popular vote.)
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Post #31 · Posted at 2017-01-28 02:18:48am 2.8 years ago

Offline Pandemonium X
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Quote: Gameoson
Quote: xXMokou98Xx
-Reduce the length of everything. Summer Contest, Shuffle, TOI. SC in particular, by the time the last couple weeks come around there's nobody participating due to school or lack of interest.

+1 to this. 8 rounds sounds like a good reasonable number. This would also make more room for a potential 4th contest.

Quote: Pandemonium X
One thing I've thought about doing is starting TOI in February, SC in April-late July, and then having another tournament style playoff in late July, early August that would be the top 16 or so users playing to see who wins SC. This way there will be some interests in the later rounds and we would be done by the time school starts for people. Feed back on this idea is welcomed.

+1, but ONLY if SC itself is reduced to 8 weeks. Otherwise if there's 12 weeks of SC and then another 4 weeks of playoffs that's just overkill.
I feel like 8 might be too short, but 10 would be a good number. That way if you start in May, the tournament part of it would start in July and would rap up at the start of August (give or take a week or two depending on how many are in TOI). This gives around 3 months for the contest.

Post #32 · Posted at 2017-01-28 02:26:06am 2.8 years ago

Offline Gameoson
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Quote: Telperion
Quote: xRGTMx
Quote: Oni-91
- Replace the ToI with a one-shot tournament. You get ONE file, but you get a month to make it the best damn file you can.

Yo, I would be down for this one. This sounds like a fun concept.
Also in favor of this. Perhaps with a judging panel, even? (In addition to popular vote.)

A judging panel sounds great! Only question is how much would the panel's opinion be weighted vs. the popular vote?

Post #33 · Posted at 2017-01-30 06:40:39pm 2.8 years ago

Offline Telperion
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Hard to know in advance what's appropriate, but my first impulse is to Eurovision it - 50% judges, 50% popular.
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Post #34 · Posted at 2017-01-30 07:04:15pm 2.8 years ago

Offline Oni-91
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Post #35 · Posted at 2017-01-31 09:28:03am 2.8 years ago

Offline Quickman
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It's very accurate to Eurovision too, we just all vote for the countries with the prettiest flag.
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