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Could chart design be an art form?

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Post #1 · Posted at 2016-07-24 04:38:56am 7.6 years ago

Offline CYSYS8993
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Reg. 2015-07-02


Last updated: 2016-08-13 12:45pm
I could support this idea from the following:

- One must take into account the standard of a difficulty rating; a poorly designed level 11 chart in iidx can feel more like a level 10 or a 12.
- No different than composing music, the composition of notes is also a factor in an enjoyable chart. Sometimes for individual players, a certain pattern of notes can somehow evoke satisfaction. Repetitive patterns can damage the chart's feedback.
- A quality chart must also be in strong harmony with the respective song.
- The quality over quantity rule will likely apply as well.

Songs aren't the only thing that's enjoyable in a rhythm game.

Post #2 · Posted at 2016-07-24 04:46:33am 7.6 years ago

Offline Aegis
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Reg. 2009-04-16

"."
For DDR:

Dancing to the chart is an art form.
From executing the afronova walks to double stepping poorly stepped things.

For IIDX:

Yes, but the chart goes hand in hand with how the song is.
Example: Beauty of Silence is boring. Song is good, but it is repetitive, so the chart will look repetitive.
Things that give me satisfaction: doing scratches that make sense. Doing scales that feel like I'm actually playing something right.

Post #3 · Posted at 2016-07-24 04:49:11am 7.6 years ago

Offline NewbStepper
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"Crybabies unite~ ♡"
I definitely consider stepchart design to be a form of art, as much as writing a book or poem can be considered art.

Regardless of the game in question, for any given song, it's nearly impossible for two different users to create the exact same sequence (or even the exact rhythm) because we all have a preference on style, patterns, gimmicks, etc. What can be fun for one player may be totally appalling to another and vice-versa. I would go as far as to say that as much as writing a book that everyone in the world likes is impossible, so is writing a chart that every player likes and finds fun.

I like your second point as it stresses individual preferences on patterns and the fact that excessive repetition is not enjoyable to many. This is no different from one's level of satisfaction from a certain plot in a story.
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Post #4 · Posted at 2016-07-24 05:18:40am 7.6 years ago

Offline wrsw
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"Sleep cancelled due to COVID-19."
I would definitely agree that chart design is an art form.

The keyword is "Design" - chart creation is actually a lot of science (namely, getting BPM and offsets and stuff like that right), and then after that, pattern work can be somewhat a science, removing anything truly stupid (in a nutshell: don't be Dead End: Groove Radar Special), especially if you're unused to creating dance pad charts.

Once the chart is on-sync and relatively playable, though, it does turn into an art form. Much like what NewbStepper said above, there's no real objective style, since everyone has different preferences.

For a personal example, I swear everyone except me hates Tempo gimmicks (see: FAXX, absolutely everything in the Pluto series, and all four 19's to name a few, there's a lot more), but I -personally, mind you- find that Tempo gimmicks actually can add a fair bit of depth to a chart (provided it's not used to a egregious extent; FELM and VDO I'm looking at you), and I find reading challenges can be quite fun (in addition to the actual stepping challenge).

Not everyone (see: everyone except me) likes that kind of challenge. Indeed, chart design is a fickle thing with no real consistent "here's how to make an awesome chart", and it really is an art, albeit one you can get good at with a lot of practice (and a lot of playing, that helps).

Post #5 · Posted at 2016-07-24 05:46:02am 7.6 years ago

Offline NewbStepper
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"Crybabies unite~ ♡"

Last updated: 2016-07-24 05:46am
Quote: wrsw
Once the chart is on-sync and relatively playable, though, it does turn into an art form.
It's as if you're implying that charts need to be on-sync and relatively playable before they can be considered a work of art. I, on the other hand, also consider off-syncness and complete abuses of gimmicks and arrow overload to be a way of designing what I believe is a splendid piece of art. My YouTube channel is indeed a gallery of such beauties. Very Happy

Quote: wrsw
removing anything truly stupid (in a nutshell: don't be Dead End: Groove Radar Special), especially if you're unused to creating dance pad charts.
But those charts are like the best! It's like they designed something purely for aesthetic horror rather than creating something enjoyable, which is what I love doing personally. Not sure if anyone else does. Laughing Out Loud


Aside from that, though, yes, I agree with what you wrote. Speed changes and stops can be nice as long as they aren't overdone and in the wrong way, but even "overdone" and "wrong way" mean different things for different users.

EDIT: I find it interesting you bring up FELM's speed changes as egregious but like the speed changes in everything in the Pluto series.
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We're the Fangirl Sisters~
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Post #6 · Posted at 2016-07-24 05:50:58am 7.6 years ago

Offline Sigrev2
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"suffering from success"
chart design is already an art form, how else would things like this exist:

Post #7 · Posted at 2016-07-24 09:03:39pm 7.6 years ago

Offline wrsw
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"Sleep cancelled due to COVID-19."
Quote: NewbStepper
EDIT: I find it interesting you bring up FELM's speed changes as egregious but like the speed changes in everything in the Pluto series.

Oh, I wasn't using all of the examples as speed gimmicks I particularly enjoy; I was just using the Pluto series as examples of songs that have speed gimmicks. I hate PTF with a burning passion of a thousand suns (shocks + 50-440 BPM + seemingly random stops = why would you do this), but it certainly has gimmicks that are well-known. Similarly, I brought up all four 19's, but then later singled out VDO for it's stupidity (no seriously why does the 480 part exist).

FELM...ugh, I really don't know why, but I can't read the pauses in that song to save my life, even though it's definitely a more consistent read than really everything in the Pluto series. Or CHAOS, for that matter.

Post #8 · Posted at 2016-07-24 11:10:30pm 7.6 years ago

Offline NewbStepper
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"Crybabies unite~ ♡"
Quote: wrsw
FELM...ugh, I really don't know why, but I can't read the pauses in that song to save my life, even though it's definitely a more consistent read than really everything in the Pluto series. Or CHAOS, for that matter.
You simply don't read the pauses on FELM, you practice it enough times to develop muscle memory for it.
xxx - xxx - xx - xxx - xx -xxx - xxx - xxxxxxxxx - xxx - xx - xxx - xx - no more pauses from here

I also have a feeling you're quite glad Konami isn't nearly as insane as myself. Laughing Hard
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We're the Fangirl Sisters~
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Post #9 · Posted at 2016-07-25 02:49:33am 7.6 years ago

Offline CYSYS8993
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Reg. 2015-07-02

What about Sound Voltex?

Post #10 · Posted at 2016-07-25 10:29:23am 7.6 years ago

Offline NewbStepper
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"Crybabies unite~ ♡"
Same deal. Any chart is subject to the writer's style and creativity. This applies just as much to osu! or even Guitar Hero charts. It is highly unlikely that any two people could produce an identical map out of sheer coincidence.
ZIv Mod Squad: "The Eternal Crybaby"
Quote: 01angel
We're the Fangirl Sisters~
The Meitu Fangirl & the Alt Fangirl Laughing Hard
https://imgur.com/knA8DJz.png
Dear Lord Toon, you are simply amazing! Happy

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