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Converting Doubles Charts to Single: Yay or nay?

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Post #1 · Posted at 2008-02-02 10:52:12am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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1,437 Posts
United States
Reg. 2007-12-29

"o_O?"
I've looked at some of the doubles charts and I thought it would be pretty cool to turn some of them into singles charts. Some of the doubles charts makes more sense than the singles charts and there are the some that are actually harder in doubles than in singles.

So I wanted to see how they would play in singles and if their increased difficulty stays true in a single chart.

So for turning some doubles charts into singles charts; Yay Happy or nay Confused?

I shall be creating some if people want it. :3
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Post #2 · Posted at 2008-02-02 11:00:29am 16 years ago

Offline AnxD
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Reg. 2008-01-01

"Ready!?"
Double is harder then singles anyway... I suck ass at doubles >_<

Post #3 · Posted at 2008-02-02 11:19:58am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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"o_O?"
So do I Sad

By the way...

Who the hell is dropping our ratings? Evil

Not that I care but it is annoying.
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Post #4 · Posted at 2008-02-02 11:23:05am 16 years ago

Offline silenttype01
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"DINGDONG♥HEARTS"
I've done this for a while now to see how it would work out, and not-so-surprisingly, the difficulty is the same.

If you're to literally copy+paste one side of the chart to the other side, you'll just get a big mess of spins and turns that would really make it more frustrating.

The way I see it is that the momentum of going back and forth gives the increased difficulty. So I say "nay".

(If you have a particular song in mind, I'll take a look at it, as your question is too vague for me to give an answer that you're looking for.)

Edit: forgot a word!

Post #5 · Posted at 2008-02-02 11:31:00am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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"o_O?"
Fascination ~eternal love mix~
Fascination MaxX
MAX 300 (Super-Max-Me-Mix)

Their doubles charts have elements that the singles don't have. It would be pretty cool to see them on a singles chart. There are probably more but these are the ones that caught my attention.
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Post #6 · Posted at 2008-02-02 11:53:52am 16 years ago

Offline silenttype01
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"DINGDONG♥HEARTS"
I would have to give the first two a closer look; they seem to be the same to me. Max 300 hundred is another story however.

The Heavy chart on Doubles is just about as difficult as the its Singles counterpart. The only part that I can remember that's different from Singles is the part from bar measures 56 through 62. Other than than, it's just simple crossovers from one pad to the other.

The Oni chart on Doubles is much harder than its Singles counterpart. Taking at a look at the stepcharts, the Double chart looks easy.
Definitely not the case.
A person that's new to Doubles wouldn't be able to recognize the sharp, complex turns that the song forces you to go through by looking at it on a piece a paper. This stepchart would be an example where you could say that it makes you go back and forth between the two pads. Simply put: too many pivots to be done without a bar (in my opinion).

And I hate using the bars, so I have quite a challenge ahead of me with that mindset.Dead

Post #7 · Posted at 2008-02-02 11:58:06am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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"o_O?"
If I ever get the time to do it, I'll make a FELM and FAXX fake doubles chart just for fun.

The charts for FELM and FAXX doubles look very different from their singles counterpart and seems fun to at least test out.
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Post #8 · Posted at 2008-02-02 12:15:39pm 16 years ago

Offline silenttype01
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"DINGDONG♥HEARTS"
I just finished looking at FAXX's Heavy chart for Singles and Doubles, and you are correct, they're different.

The gallops were replaced in the Doubles chart so it wouldn't look like Tsugaru. It was either that, or make it go all over the place - but that would be adding insult to injury (no offense FELMDemon). The approach that was taken was to have it flow with the song and it gives room to make a complicated pattern. Imagine a halfpipe. That's what you're pretty much doing with the part that has the gallops in the beginning on Singles. The jumps at the end were - thankfully - replaced by little clusters of arrows. I prefer the clusters as it doesn't require much movement, but that's just me.;)

There isn't much to say for the Oni counterpart, except that it's more complex with its pattern.

...back to the question, I still say nay as it's the momentum that adds the difficulty.

Post #9 · Posted at 2008-02-02 01:59:49pm 16 years ago

Offline zodiak_911
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658 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2007-06-12

If you'd take a look at my simfiles, you'd see that I have already done some songs as double transplants a while ago! Of course I only did the ones that I tought were the more fun to do 'cause I don't really like 10-footers like FELM and FAXX double chart... Well FELM is interesting in some way, but way too hard for me on double!

Post #10 · Posted at 2008-02-03 02:13:08am 16 years ago

Offline silenttype01
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"DINGDONG♥HEARTS"
I just looked at Fascination ~eternal love mix~

The Heavy chart for Singles concentrates on the density of the arrows for its difficulties and its Doubles counterpart relies on the song's speed for the difficulty. The part I consider hard is the end of the last slowdown before the last 400 bpm section.

It's obvious where the Singles Oni chart goes for difficulty (the jumps). Comparing the graph of Heavy Doubles and Oni Doubles, it shows that the Oni difficulty is easier. That is wrong! Even looking at the two stepcharts would have you believe that! Take a good, close look at the arrow placement. I'm pretty sure that throughout the song, you'll be experiencing some crazy pivots.

But, yeah, to tie this up to the topic at hand, the only one that would be fun to transplant is Fascination ~eternal love mix~'s Oni chart from Doubles - but it has to be executed right so that it doesn't feel like an edit. My opinion is still nay. The amped difficulty is there to intrigue people into playing Doubles Tongue

Post #11 · Posted at 2008-02-03 01:24:41pm 16 years ago

Offline Pandemonium X
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For superNOVA songs, it’s a good idea. Besides that, I’m not sure.Then again, it could be interesting to see what some of the steps are like.

Post #12 · Posted at 2008-02-06 08:41:03am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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"o_O?"
I requested my own simfile category and will be uploading my first doubles conversion soon. Happy

The first song I'm doing should be obvious. Tongue
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Post #13 · Posted at 2008-02-06 09:05:32am 16 years ago

Offline silenttype01
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"DINGDONG♥HEARTS"
That's great! I'll be looking forward to your takes on it.

Post #14 · Posted at 2008-02-06 11:57:14am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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"o_O?"
I ran into a wall already. Shocked

There are errors in the expert chart in the simfile here. Gallops are missing and an odd freeze arrow is there. I had to look at my game to find the right stuff. I hope I have the right gallops. Annoyed

And you were right. It is messy on a single chart. I can't read doubles charts well Dead

Edit: I finished converting the FELM Doubles Expert chart into a single chart! It is a sight to behold and a bit crazy at certain points.

Does the groove radar automatically update when you change the chart?

You can see it right here! Happy

Tell me if there are any errors in it.
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Post #15 · Posted at 2008-02-06 11:10:32pm 16 years ago

Offline n00b_saib0t
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"F***ing exhausted."
IMO, if youre going to do this you have to do it right. dont just put all of it on one pad as it looks terrible, try and get the exact same step/freeze/jump/etc count, and use the same concept, but the charts a mess if you just cram them together, as was already pointed out.

i did a few a while back for hit'n'slap, sobakasu, and r10k that turned out really good because i tried to use crossovers and what not where the double chart did instead of just cramming it all on one pad.
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Post #16 · Posted at 2008-02-07 12:05:44am 16 years ago

Offline Goldensunboy
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Reg. 2008-01-08

On the idea of turning a doubles chart into a singles chart...

"Nay" if you take all of pad1 and pad2's lefts, downs, ups and rights and put them on pad1's L,D,U and R.

There are a million examples for why it would be unpaddable (or at least with double-stepping) . Consider the last 7 arrows of Flowers doubles: L2 R1 D1 L1 U1 R1 L2, starting on the right foot. Basically, you hit L2, go in a clockwise circle on pad1 that starts and ends in a crossover, then hit L2 again. Easy to do on doubles, but on singles you would have to face 90 degrees right and hit L with your right foot then R with your left and do another Uber-crossover to finish it.

"Yay", if you take the doubles chart's beat and design a singles chart around that beat. Extra yay if you model the turns and crossovers for the singles chart around the ones for the doubles chart.

Some charts are trickier on doubles (Chikara), and would have a very different, and probably better, feel if singles charts were modeled around their beat. If you take a song with similar beats on singles and doubles (Angelus), it would just seem like another KONAMI-style relatively-easy chart if converted to singles.

FELMDemon: I myself and a moderate fan of Fascination ~eternal love mix~ (but I don't take it to the extreme like you Roll Eyes), and I will be happy to play your edit in an hour or two when I finish some more of my work. Homeschooled, which is really neat since I can do some work, switch to Z-i-V and check posts, do some more work, check out NND, etc.
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Post #17 · Posted at 2008-02-07 05:52:26am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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"o_O?"
If I don't put each arrow where it is, then it wouldn't exactly be official now would it? Annoyed

I do see some nastiness though.

The first 200 and 400 section is nuts. Crazy crossovers with 8th steps littered inside.

The 200 section is fine until the first set of gallops. Then its crossovers into the next set of gallops.

The 200 section before the final 400 stretch is just one huge stream and it looks REALLY nasty.

The last 400 section is just a bunch of jackhammer streams except for the last bit.

Evaluate it and tell me if anything I posted is wrong or you see some other severe craziness. I'll definitely redo the really crazy stuff I posted above.

I'll keep the difficult charts and basic charts as the conversion from double to single. I'll toy around with the Expert and Challenge charts if there is something really nasty.

Converting FAXX = Hell Dead

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Post #18 · Posted at 2008-02-07 10:42:08am 16 years ago

Offline Goldensunboy
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Even if you put each arrow where it is on either pad in the same spot on one pad, it's not going to be considered "official" because the steps on doubles were originally modeled with the intent of being playing on doubles mode; the game is then experienced in a way vastly different from what KONAMI intended, and it becomes very hard to enjoy.

I tried the doubles -> singles chart you made for FELM, and it was not enjoyable. Many, many crossovers (these are only ok if used in moderation), even more double-steps than the crossovers, and some of the 8th streams (notably, the last one) were simply not possible with the feet, or with indexing in StepMania (possible with spread, but not everyone plays spread, so it's better to play it safe and make your simfiles indexable).

Again, doubles has a very different beat to it than singles, so a very nice stepchart could theoretically be made if the old "pad1 + pad2 -> pad1" steps are scrapped, and new, paddable ones are modelled after the beat in the official doubles chart. Would you try that, maybe? I think modelling a new singles chart after a doubles-chart's beat would be interesting.
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Post #19 · Posted at 2008-02-07 11:29:42am 16 years ago

Offline FELMDemon
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Reg. 2007-12-29

"o_O?"
I anticipated that.

I'll have to scrap that one huge stream of arrows in the 200 section before the final 400 stretch. That looked impossible to do. Dead

I'll change around the arrows in the first 200 section. The triplets in the first 400 section shall be moved to two arrows but I'll keep the 3 crossovers at the end though.

Changing the nasty section after the first gallops. Definitely changing the group of 8th arrows in the second 400 section.

I think I'll keep the stuff at the end though to give it some kick. Tongue
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Post #20 · Posted at 2008-02-07 11:54:06am 16 years ago

Offline Ziergds
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Puerto Rico
Reg. 2008-01-23

Quote: FELMDemon
I requested my own simfile category and will be uploading my first doubles conversion soon. Happy

The first song I'm doing should be obvious. Tongue


i know i know...Fascination ~eternal love mix~:3
Just kidding,i look foward to it.Green Grin
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