The DDR Research Master Thread - UPDATED 2023-04-15 - Minor Addition - SOME DDR GB1 Memory Addresses

From what I've seen, the PS2 games have an MDB.BIN file with the same structure as in the arcade games so I also think that a lot of the data is stored in the same way in both games.
For example, understanding the values of the MDB.BIN file I could enable hidden charts in DDR Party Collection:



With them enabled in the MDB instead of forcing them to be played with Cheat Engine, you can even save scores for them!


Fun fact: at least until Party Collection (haven't checked EX2, SN1 and SN2) the difficulty values were stored in single bytes, so the maximum difficulty for a stepchart in that game is 16 (F). I'd have to take a look at the PS2 version of DDR X to see how do they do since the maximum level was increased to 20.

What still puzzles me is that the PS2 games don't seem to use proper SSQ files. When playing a song, the step data is loaded in memory (and it uses the SSQ format) but the header of the original AC SSQ, that indicates important data like song BPMs, stepchart start/end, etc... isn't loaded anywhere.

*15 - remember, in an unsigned value, N bits can represent up to (2^N ) - 1.

In all seriousness though, that bit about the MDB file 's actually quite interesting. I ought to look at the MDB file in my spare time.

(lately been bogged down with work & live streaming in my off time & forcing myself to get back to the gym regularly)


I had been wondering, following some of Sesse's posts, if what we are seeing is a bi-product of something we think of as the SSQ proper actually being its own container format? It seems to be a thing that can be, well, a thing (in other games) - the PC game Titanic: Adventure Out of Time for instance, using CyberFlix's own DreamFactory engine, has many files with different extensions that seem to share a common container format.

I think it could at least partially explain my initially thinking that the bg video scripts aren't part of the format itself due to them not appearing with the stepdata in CS Games, and other conclusions being drawn about them from looking at AC data.


Erm … I merely thought that if we WANT to be able to figure out AC mixes, this data is worth looking at, since it gives us variables and function names for components that are shared - not restricted to one game or another … and that even if it is a small portion of the game, it's still a non-zero amount (for AC mixes) that would be figured out, removing that much work.


Anywhoo, here is a link to an archive I whipped up with just the leftover debugging data, symbol data, from MAX JP, MAX U.S, MAX2 JP, the MAX2 U.S preview, MAX2 US, Party Collection, EXTREME JP, EXTREME U.S.

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1o8-HBPKVkZS-__noyVGvBho31ymrwkHp

Just realized I inadvertently included the full executable for SuperNOVA U.S .. ignore that.

From what I was talking with some other guy, everything points that in the CS games the SSQ files are compressed in the same fashion as in the AC games and they're uncompressed into a specific memory region when a song is chosen.
By checking the Party Collection executable with a Hex editor I see a reference to data/mdb/ddr6_mdb.bin so I guess the files are packed inside that file.

In fact...



IN OTHER NEWS: DAM DARIRAM HAS A DOUBLES CHALLENGE CHART AS WELL!?


The chart ends early as well as the Single Challenge one, so maybe it's fit for Give it Up too?
EDIT: It is, as someone pointed here

Not exactly a mere belief or desire, but rather likely factually valid - the symbol data leftover in CS mixes shows that the code is recycled from AC to CS mix, therefore it's reasonable to assume or guess that figuring out where the symbols go can not only help us figure out the CS mixes, but also go a long way in finding and documenting the same code in the AC mixes, and aid in reverse engineering those games as well.

Sometimes, you gotta take a detour to get to our final destination.

Please guys, don't fight over such silly things. Everything helps....

If anything, something that could help is comparing some data between game.dat/card.dat and the CS executable and filedata.bin
IMO the best games to try are DDRMAX and Party Collection since they have too few songs so sorting data should be easier.

I'd argue that the MAX US and MAX2 US demo discs are perhaps the best for working on figuring out the actual workings of the CS versions of the game, since they have, arguably, the absolute least amount of songs (4 songs in each demo disc IIRC), while retaining the most (if not all) of the respective game's structure functionality wise.

Oh, didn't think about the demo discs, you're right

OK, I've been trying to be gentle here, but I obviously need to be more explicit.

How much time have you been spending on the CS mixes? Five years? And what is your AC research to show for it? In contrast, I spent about a month on Extreme AC and got answers to nearly all the questions I wanted answers to (to the point that the project doesn't really interest me much anymore), without wasting a second on the CS mixes, or making use anything you published so far. (There are precisely two sources that have yielded interesting intel: The Aaron in Japan posts about the formats from way back, and the amazing work done by Windy Fairy to figure out the MP3 decryption and add Sys573D support in MAME.) Sure, there might be symbols in the CS mixes. But so? Why do you need them? Open up a decompiler and just look at the source it produces, the names will come easily once you have the data structures down.

If you are interested in the CS mixes, have fun. If you feel that's your best way to understand whatever questions you may have about the AC mixes (which may very well be entirely different questions from mine!), then go ahead. But don't come and give me crap about your strategy being “factually valid” and trying to push me to follow it, because so far, it's pretty much a failure.

I won't be posting in this thread anymore, since a) it's not productive, and b) the project is already on indefinite hold, as previously mentioned. Goodbye!

Just have to point that the MP3 decryption wasn't figured out by WindyFairy. He just figured how to add it to MAME.

Also, I REALLY want to know what decompiler to use. So far I've only found compatible disassemblers.

Fortunately, The Internet Archive (archive.org) has both MAX and MAX2 US's demo discs (as well as a number of PSX titles), so access to them is quite easy.

I don't know who you are and what you've done in the community, but this shit? Leave the attitude at the door, mate.

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Reverse engineering console games is significantly less of a pain in the ass than arcade games and considering the insanely high percentage of recycled stuff in console DDR games I don't get why it wouldn't be useful to look at them, much less get all huffy and condescending. Why is it that every time there's any size of following in understanding retro game code, SOMEBODY has to play the "my way is the best" card?

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As I said before, Sesse, I am glad we have another set of eyes interested in this stuff, and that happiness isn't going to end (especially with the great stuff you have done yourself).

... but acting like a condescending cunt just risks hindering our overall efforts across the board w/ regards to learning, understanding, and reverse-engineering DDR titles (between possibly ignoring ideas that could lead to results if at least tried, to putting off others who might want to help as well, and potentially stirring up the type of tension that causes tempers to flare, and progress to halt from the potential arguing). We all have different opinions and views, different ideas worth trying with regards to approaching this (or at the least pondering or exploring, flushing out/refining). This isn't some e-dick waving contest. Don't try to make it one.

I'm not sure who Sesse is, but the rest of you have been here for quite some time at this point and I know none of you are trouble makers. I love that this series still has a small dedicated fanbase (even if we don't all post often) and everyone that wants to look at these games like this is a welcome addition, but I think a simple "I don't want to look into that" is all that was needed, everything else after that was condescending and rude, just in general not what this site should be with as few people as there are still posting here.

That said, there is some damn cool information in this thread. I love reading about how games are coded in terms that I can understand as it's cool to see how these things function. So thank you to everyone involved in digging into these things, both arcade and console versions.

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Well, now that we're talking about CS games, I'm still trying to figure out where the files are in the PS2 structure.

- In the Arcade games, the data is in GAME.DAT, and its file table is at a specific address in that file (reading sys573tools, it's 0xFE4000). The actual executable, aout.exe is in it.

- In the PS2 games there's 3 important files (I'm tinkering with Party Collection):
-- FILEDATA.BIN: Most of the stuff is in here. There's certainly the actual songs and graphics, I imagine the SSQs are in there too.
-- SOUND/SD.BIN: The music previews and announcer voices are here.
-- SLPM_624.27 is the game's executable

But things get complicated. For example:
- I can't find a section similar to the arcade game's file table yet. That's just a lot of hex code to read!
- The MDB table in Party Collection (and I assume other PS2 games) is, as mentioned before, clearly in SLPM_624.27 (in this case at address 0x17DE70):

Thing is, in PS2 games that file is uncompressed (I can find it with a hex editor) while in arcade games is packed with Konami's LZ77 compression (the contents can't be viewed by simply opening GAME.DAT).

- The Party Collection's executable has a WHOLE LOT of debugging data. First mention of "MW MIPS C Compiler" is in address 0x1A29D4... that's about 3/4ths of the file!


I'll keep searching...

hewwo uwu
sorry abt that, but i wonder if anyone here could possibly look into datamining the wii games, specifically HP1? i want to verify that if this chart is real or not:
thank u if u do bai

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Pluto the First only had Expert on the Wii games, it got Challenge in DDR X2.
Also, the video description clearly says "Original step.", so it's not official.

speaking of CS games
there's a few stuff i'd love to search more about but currently can't due to me not finding the solution to the data compression hell
- whether or not there's more data of PETIT LOVE in DDR EXTRA MIX, aside from the CD in the VRAM data of the song select screen
- whether or not there's more data of ADDICTED TO BASS in Dancing Stage Party Edition, aside from the CD and song select screen text
- verify if remnants of Groove Is In The Heart still exist within the data of the PS1 Dancing Stage Fever

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Absolutely this, it was on the box art, so I've always wondered how deep they went before they decided not to put it in the game.

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that's not oni, that's an expert chart and what the description means by original is referring to how that's a beta chart, i'm wondering if it really is especially since this user also was one of the, if not, first to upload and discover beta charts of saturn and uranus, both of which are verified to be true so...

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