Post #1 · Posted at 2012-10-03 01:00:07pm 12.7 years ago
This has been bothering me lately. I'm fully aware that the timing windows on console DDR are larger than the arcades. But here's what bothers me:
So....are console PFC's pretty much.....pointless? I'm almost to my 100th console PFC (and I've made huge accomplishments along the way) and if console PFC's are pointless, then I don't see the point of playing console DDR anymore.
It's also not fair because people aren't as lucky as others where there's a perfectly good DDR arcade machine nearby (especially here in the US).
So, are DDR console PFC's pointless or just not as impressive/meaningful as arcade PFC's?
So....are console PFC's pretty much.....pointless? I'm almost to my 100th console PFC (and I've made huge accomplishments along the way) and if console PFC's are pointless, then I don't see the point of playing console DDR anymore.
It's also not fair because people aren't as lucky as others where there's a perfectly good DDR arcade machine nearby (especially here in the US).
So, are DDR console PFC's pointless or just not as impressive/meaningful as arcade PFC's?
Post #2 · Posted at 2012-10-03 01:16:23pm 12.7 years ago
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Just depends on what you feel is the better/more accessible one.
Hey, if it isn't StepMania, I would say they are valid. More so, the only thing you would have to do is differentiate the two, have one side for CS PFC's, and another for AC PFC's.
Many people prefer AC PFC's over the CS PFC's/grading due to the strict timing the arcade versions have over the console versions. Not saying it's easy-peezy to get a AAA on console but, honestly if you take the time it isn't quite that hard to do, even on a plastic/soft mat. Arcade however is a hell of a lot more gruesome but definitely awarding when you get a AAA no matter what difficulty.
I vote for console PFC's not as impressive as arcade PFC's. Think about it, you're playing the same stepchart you would find in the arcade version, the game you are playing was created by Konami themselves so it's official DDR-stamped grading, it's just not as strict as the arcade version is.
Hey, if it isn't StepMania, I would say they are valid. More so, the only thing you would have to do is differentiate the two, have one side for CS PFC's, and another for AC PFC's.
Many people prefer AC PFC's over the CS PFC's/grading due to the strict timing the arcade versions have over the console versions. Not saying it's easy-peezy to get a AAA on console but, honestly if you take the time it isn't quite that hard to do, even on a plastic/soft mat. Arcade however is a hell of a lot more gruesome but definitely awarding when you get a AAA no matter what difficulty.
I vote for console PFC's not as impressive as arcade PFC's. Think about it, you're playing the same stepchart you would find in the arcade version, the game you are playing was created by Konami themselves so it's official DDR-stamped grading, it's just not as strict as the arcade version is.
Post #3 · Posted at 2012-10-03 01:29:39pm 12.7 years ago
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Quote: Max
Hey, if it isn't StepMania, I would say they are valid.
^this
Post #4 · Posted at 2012-10-03 01:31:38pm 12.7 years ago
| Silverhawke | |
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So just like in IIDX, DDR's timing is also frame based, and to compensate for the controller lag, they added +1 frame to the timing windows EXCEPT Marvelous. Marvelous' timing window stays the same between AC and CS, its the other timing that's wider, which makes it feel less strict.
Some CS DDR also had the overlapping timing windows problem, making it nigh-impossible to FC Fascination ~eternal love mix~
.Post #5 · Posted at 2012-10-03 01:49:04pm 12.7 years ago
They aren't necessarily pointless. You just can't count them towards the same score tracker or it would be 100% unfair. Again the timing is one frame bigger on console games for the perfect window which pretty much means the timing for a perfect is twice as big.
If people care to watch videos or you have no choice but to play console games why not make it count towards a goal/counter of its own? To me its like saying "my xbox gamerscore doesn't count because I play Japanese games/visual novels all the time" which just isn't true. Of course you can make it count towards its own counter its not like its illegal or people are calling you out on it. If you were counting scores on score tracker with console games that is a whole different story obviously.
If people care to watch videos or you have no choice but to play console games why not make it count towards a goal/counter of its own? To me its like saying "my xbox gamerscore doesn't count because I play Japanese games/visual novels all the time" which just isn't true. Of course you can make it count towards its own counter its not like its illegal or people are calling you out on it. If you were counting scores on score tracker with console games that is a whole different story obviously.
Post #6 · Posted at 2012-10-03 01:54:12pm 12.7 years ago
| Parafox | |
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Well there are several arcade challenges that make it more impressive. As said before there's the strict timing window on an arcade, which makes it pretty impressive to obtain an arcade AAA. For instance, people have many CS PFCs, but no AC PFCs at all. Another thing is the cabinet design. For instance, most homepads aren't recessed (or at least not nearly as much) as the arcade pads. On a home version it's very easy to slide your feet rather than having small indents in the pad that make it semi-more challenging.
Also, about the DDR location issue: the best DDR X3 cabinet nearby me is more than an hour away and I only go there once a month. I still play and have lots of fun and can still rack out PFCs. I don't think it's a matter about how close it is because as long as you're willing to put down some time for something you love, well you should be okay. In fact lots of people have to travel big distances to play DDR here, so personally I don't find it as a challenge. Also machines don't have to be perfectly okay. For instance, I have a DDR Extreme cabinet near by that's... okay-ish quality. It drops notes here and there and I may get a pad Great or Good, but I can still rack out PFCs on that.
Also, about the DDR location issue: the best DDR X3 cabinet nearby me is more than an hour away and I only go there once a month. I still play and have lots of fun and can still rack out PFCs. I don't think it's a matter about how close it is because as long as you're willing to put down some time for something you love, well you should be okay. In fact lots of people have to travel big distances to play DDR here, so personally I don't find it as a challenge. Also machines don't have to be perfectly okay. For instance, I have a DDR Extreme cabinet near by that's... okay-ish quality. It drops notes here and there and I may get a pad Great or Good, but I can still rack out PFCs on that.
Post #7 · Posted at 2012-10-03 02:09:35pm 12.7 years ago
Also you're going to quit if console scores don't matter? Are you saying you're not having fun? If you're not having fun maybe its just better if you do quit. Why stick with something where you can't feel good about ANY accomplishment or having fun.
I admit while I am in it for the AAA's on the arcade games I am at least having fun while playing. If I'm not having fun in between then what the hell is the point?
I admit while I am in it for the AAA's on the arcade games I am at least having fun while playing. If I'm not having fun in between then what the hell is the point?
Post #8 · Posted at 2012-10-03 02:50:34pm 12.7 years ago
| ledgam3r1279 | |
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Quote: Silverhawke
So just like in IIDX, DDR's timing is also frame based, and to compensate for the controller lag, they added +1 frame to the timing windows EXCEPT Marvelous. Marvelous' timing window stays the same between AC and CS, its the other timing that's wider, which makes it feel less strict.
Wait, so if I get an MFC in a CS game, and the Marvelous window is the same for both AC and CS, is that MFC just as legit as getting it in the arcade? probably not
Back to the main point, I think it's okay if you keep practicing on the CS games before going back to the arcade, even if they're not "legit." Besides, the console games are what got me started in DDR and it wasn't until I got past 150 or so PFCs in the console games when I started playing DDR in the arcades and got my 1st PFC on an arcade machine.
Also, I definitely feel your pain that you don't have access to a machine, let alone one that's in good condition (especially after I was able to play DDR X3 for *only* 7 weeks). I'm guessing the majority of players outside of Asia have the same feeling too. Arcades are pretty much dead in America, anyways, so I don't know if the effort to get to an arcade is really worth it. Konami is pretty much shoving the CS games in our throats at this point.
Maybe if we had a separate score tracker for the console games, then it would be more accessible to more players in the US and we could have separate lists for arcade and console scores. *points to old thread I made that has no replies yet*
Quote: Kon
Also you're going to quit if console scores don't matter? Are you saying you're not having fun? If you're not having fun maybe its just better if you do quit. Why stick with something where you can't feel good about ANY accomplishment or having fun.
I admit while I am in it for the AAA's on the arcade games I am at least having fun while playing. If I'm not having fun in between then what the hell is the point?
I admit while I am in it for the AAA's on the arcade games I am at least having fun while playing. If I'm not having fun in between then what the hell is the point?
^^also this. Besides, isn't that the main point of games in general: having fun?
Post #9 · Posted at 2012-10-03 03:18:46pm 12.7 years ago
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Quote: Kon
Also you're going to quit if console scores don't matter? Are you saying you're not having fun? If you're not having fun maybe its just better if you do quit. Why stick with something where you can't feel good about ANY accomplishment or having fun.
I admit while I am in it for the AAA's on the arcade games I am at least having fun while playing. If I'm not having fun in between then what the hell is the point?
I admit while I am in it for the AAA's on the arcade games I am at least having fun while playing. If I'm not having fun in between then what the hell is the point?
Of course I won't quit! Are you nuts? If that were true, I would still play but I wouldn't push myself as much I guess. And I'm having a ton a fun with this game. I guess I shouldn't have said about not seeing the point of playing console DDR anymore. I was really just asking if the PFC's meant the same as arcades. And going by what you guys are saying, obviously not. Trust me Kon, I'm having a ton of fun with this game. Otherwise, I would have quit a long time ago. I take this game both fun and seriously like you do. And taking it seriously makes it even more fun for me.
Quote
Why stick with something where you can't feel good about ANY accomplishment or having fun.
I feel fantastic about my accomplishments. I made some that really REALLY made me happy. Like recently, I PFC'd SABER WING on
. That's a hard ass chart and I feel great about it.Post #10 · Posted at 2012-10-03 05:19:07pm 12.7 years ago
| AeronPeryton | |
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The scores you achieve are for you and you alone. You call it an achievement because you know you worked hard for it and you felt good accomplishing it. Sometimes (or all the time) you want to show it to others. Hey guys look, I got this and feel super! And that's okay. Some people think that's being vain, but it's fine really.
Someone else comes along and they get the same achievement but they do it on this other mix that everyone knows is easier to score on... so what? They got the same achievement you did and it's just as good. It doesn't come down to the technicalities of the timing window, or the scoring system, or any of that because it was always all about you both doing something for yourselves and feeling good about it. It's not a contest, they didn't get an edge on you, there's no leader, there will be no winner. It's just something to feel proud of. And they can be just as proud as you are.
If someone does something impressive on StepMania, or an ITG machine, it's still impressive because they did it. It doesn't matter if there were three additional frames of whatnot. They can be just as proud as you are. If someone goes into the code of StepMania or a machine and alters it to make it easier to pass, they're not cheating anyone or anything but themselves. Because it's not a contest, they can't "beat" you with this advantage. They can only pretend to be good, and they'll always know that they're not. ...and it's likely that others will catch on.
Since there's no tangible reason to cheat other than to lie which does nothing but make someone a liar, there's no reason to care if someone goes to the trouble to create the deception. If someone starts posting fake or hacked scores and you don't like it, tell them. If they continue then just don't care. If someone thinks your legit scores are fake, tell them. If they continue then just don't care. You are not your scores. Since there's nothing to be won or lost, other achievements won under easier circumstances can't actually hurt or diminish you. Remember that they are for you only and you just want to show others because it (the accomplishments, not showing them off) makes you feel good. And being social about stuff like this is what makes the music-gaming community great.
If the... granularity of difficulty involved in these games still bother you then you should probably find something else to do. Or at least do a major self-check. Because the only point to playing a game is to have fun and enjoy yourself and if it's gotten to this point then the minor details and nitpicky technicalities of the game are preventing you from doing so.
Not talking to anyone specifically, just putting this out there.
Someone else comes along and they get the same achievement but they do it on this other mix that everyone knows is easier to score on... so what? They got the same achievement you did and it's just as good. It doesn't come down to the technicalities of the timing window, or the scoring system, or any of that because it was always all about you both doing something for yourselves and feeling good about it. It's not a contest, they didn't get an edge on you, there's no leader, there will be no winner. It's just something to feel proud of. And they can be just as proud as you are.
If someone does something impressive on StepMania, or an ITG machine, it's still impressive because they did it. It doesn't matter if there were three additional frames of whatnot. They can be just as proud as you are. If someone goes into the code of StepMania or a machine and alters it to make it easier to pass, they're not cheating anyone or anything but themselves. Because it's not a contest, they can't "beat" you with this advantage. They can only pretend to be good, and they'll always know that they're not. ...and it's likely that others will catch on.
Since there's no tangible reason to cheat other than to lie which does nothing but make someone a liar, there's no reason to care if someone goes to the trouble to create the deception. If someone starts posting fake or hacked scores and you don't like it, tell them. If they continue then just don't care. If someone thinks your legit scores are fake, tell them. If they continue then just don't care. You are not your scores. Since there's nothing to be won or lost, other achievements won under easier circumstances can't actually hurt or diminish you. Remember that they are for you only and you just want to show others because it (the accomplishments, not showing them off) makes you feel good. And being social about stuff like this is what makes the music-gaming community great.
If the... granularity of difficulty involved in these games still bother you then you should probably find something else to do. Or at least do a major self-check. Because the only point to playing a game is to have fun and enjoy yourself and if it's gotten to this point then the minor details and nitpicky technicalities of the game are preventing you from doing so.
Not talking to anyone specifically, just putting this out there.
Post #11 · Posted at 2012-10-03 06:12:36pm 12.7 years ago
Quote: ledgam3r1279
Wait, so if I get an MFC in a CS game, and the Marvelous window is the same for both AC and CS, is that MFC just as legit as getting it in the arcade?
Exactly. If anything, it's slightly harder in CS, due to the slight lag from the controller.But anyways, this exactly:
Quote: Max
Hey, if it isn't StepMania, I would say they are valid.
Post #12 · Posted at 2012-10-03 06:49:36pm 12.7 years ago
If you only care about what other people think of you in spite of what personally makes you feel accomplished, then yes, quit playing home versions. I only say that cause most people only recognize arcade mixes as legit. Honestly though, I have no problem with anyone who wants to count console and arcade PFCs separate.
I even think if one day I can wire my arcades pad to a PS2 controller, I'd love to play some console mixes as a challenge to see how much I can do.
I even think if one day I can wire my arcades pad to a PS2 controller, I'd love to play some console mixes as a challenge to see how much I can do.
Post #13 · Posted at 2012-10-03 10:04:43pm 12.7 years ago
| donosean | |
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I'd agree with most things people are saying in the thread. Sure, AC timing windows are a lot stricter. Sure, arcade pads can be harder to move on. Taking all that into consideration, CS PFCs are still impressive. To be able to get these scores means you've gotta have a certain degree of accuracy with your stepping and timing in the first place, and chances are you'd be able to at least AA these songs with a low enough great count on an AC mix, if not PFC it again with practise.
Again, they don't count towards score tracker scores or anything, but we all know that by now. Keep AC and CS PFCs as separate counters, but feel good about each and every one, 'cause you earned them all
Again, they don't count towards score tracker scores or anything, but we all know that by now. Keep AC and CS PFCs as separate counters, but feel good about each and every one, 'cause you earned them all
Post #14 · Posted at 2012-10-03 10:47:24pm 12.7 years ago
Pump it Up has wider perfect windows than even the CS DDR titles, yet I don't see anyone discounting any of those PFCs there. Even when going from arcade PIU to CS DDR you can feel how much tighter CS games are.
IMO, none of it matters. I've gotten over 200 PFCs at home and about 65 in the arcades. Believe me when I say it would be a lot more if the pads I had to play on weren't crap, or better yet if I could hook my home mat up to it. Marvelous is still the same timing as it is in the arcades and my count there is every bit as high in most cases as it is at home. Besides, I look at it all as personal accomplishments anyway, as it's not like you're winning an award for breaking 100 PFCs anywhere in the first place.
Pump it Up has wider perfect windows than even the CS DDR titles, yet I don't see anyone discounting any of those PFCs there. Even when going from arcade PIU to CS DDR you can feel how much tighter CS games are.
IMO, none of it matters. I've gotten over 200 PFCs at home and about 65 in the arcades. Believe me when I say it would be a lot more if the pads I had to play on weren't crap, or better yet if I could hook my home mat up to it. Marvelous is still the same timing as it is in the arcades and my count there is every bit as high in most cases as it is at home. Besides, I look at it all as personal accomplishments anyway, as it's not like you're winning an award for breaking 100 PFCs anywhere in the first place.
IMO, none of it matters. I've gotten over 200 PFCs at home and about 65 in the arcades. Believe me when I say it would be a lot more if the pads I had to play on weren't crap, or better yet if I could hook my home mat up to it. Marvelous is still the same timing as it is in the arcades and my count there is every bit as high in most cases as it is at home. Besides, I look at it all as personal accomplishments anyway, as it's not like you're winning an award for breaking 100 PFCs anywhere in the first place.
Pump it Up has wider perfect windows than even the CS DDR titles, yet I don't see anyone discounting any of those PFCs there. Even when going from arcade PIU to CS DDR you can feel how much tighter CS games are.
IMO, none of it matters. I've gotten over 200 PFCs at home and about 65 in the arcades. Believe me when I say it would be a lot more if the pads I had to play on weren't crap, or better yet if I could hook my home mat up to it. Marvelous is still the same timing as it is in the arcades and my count there is every bit as high in most cases as it is at home. Besides, I look at it all as personal accomplishments anyway, as it's not like you're winning an award for breaking 100 PFCs anywhere in the first place.
Post #15 · Posted at 2012-10-03 10:50:23pm 12.7 years ago
| Silverhawke | |
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Last updated: 2012-10-03 10:51pm
Why suddenly PIU goes here.
PIU is its own game, no need to make arguments with it.
Though I had to admit PIU's timing windows is so wide you can fit the Moon there.
I don't need to use a [/hyperbole] tag, right? Or do I need to use Comic Sans?
PIU is its own game, no need to make arguments with it.
Though I had to admit PIU's timing windows is so wide you can fit the Moon there.
I don't need to use a [/hyperbole] tag, right? Or do I need to use Comic Sans?
Post #16 · Posted at 2012-10-03 11:23:06pm 12.7 years ago
| razorblade | |
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Pump It Up AC has wider timing than StepMania factory default timing.
Post #17 · Posted at 2012-10-03 11:24:16pm 12.7 years ago
| Silverhawke | |
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Yeah I know.
However this thread is about CS DDR and AC DDR.
Now where can I find PIU in there eh?
However this thread is about CS DDR and AC DDR.
Now where can I find PIU in there eh?
Post #18 · Posted at 2012-10-04 02:38:22am 12.7 years ago
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Ok. I get the point guys. It doesn't matter as long as you're having fun with it. And honestly, I do. I love this game to death. And besides, most of you guys (overall) find CS PFC's pretty impressive anyway. I shouldn't have made this thread in the first place. But I realize now that it doesn't matter. And that's fine by me. I'm not gonna quit DDR anytime soon. 
Post #19 · Posted at 2012-10-04 07:05:59am 12.7 years ago
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I just wish there was a score tracker set up for CS scores. In the UK I'm -never- going to find anything playable past SuperNOVA so I can't participate in the competitive side of things which is part of the fun! Home versions are all I've got!
Post #20 · Posted at 2012-10-04 08:37:37am 12.7 years ago
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I have seen your videos before, and you use marvelous timing (which i herd that its the same timing as AC) and I enjoy to see how many marvelous you can get. your amazing and should count every single one you get! And I also know how you feel about the arcades, all I have is extremes EVERYWHERE!!! (ok 3 but not walking distance)