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History of the Japanese DDR Scene/Community

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Post #81 · Posted at 2011-05-23 06:42:42am 12.9 years ago

Offline PanStyle
PanStyle Avatar Member
1,054 Posts
France
Reg. 2007-07-05

Quote: seishinbyou
The one up now should be "40" from March 3rd, 2011.

I thought about adding a personal addendum to it but I already do that in parts throughout the essay and anything else I add would be unrelated to the original scope of the essay)

Also, I have chatted with some of the online publishers. lulu.com is willing to publish this "as is" provided I don't register an ISBN for it since well, copyright issues with Konami, screenshots, players, events, etc.

A Black and White print with color covers will be $8.50 US. I can make it up, but should I resize the book to be 6'x9' or leave it at "Letter" sized paper? Letter sized seems a big large for a book, but then again if I make it 6x9, it will be almost 300 pages unless I condense the text/spacing, etc.. If I make it full color it will be over $20 but that is another story.
Do you have a link for it ?

You can make it color just for yourself. Once you're really sure it's finished (like with good design and stuff).
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/lordtoon/User%20Names/PanStyle.png http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/ddrsig/1336.png?t=1284597568

Post #82 · Posted at 2011-05-23 02:41:43pm 12.9 years ago

Offline KcLKcL
KcLKcL Avatar Member
388 Posts
Indonesia
Reg. 2008-08-12

Game Center Nickname: KincLongKcL
Letter is too big. Well yeah maybe 6x9, I'd go for that way.

On the other side, you should record Yasu when you got a chance to, I'm sure people is curious how is he now Big Grin
http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/ddrsig/3232.png?t=1291530924

English is not my first language. Please don't mind my grammar errors.

Post #83 · Posted at 2011-05-23 08:19:54pm 12.9 years ago

Offline Dancefreak
Dancefreak Avatar Member+
340 Posts
United Kingdom
Reg. 2006-08-12

It certainly made interesting reading for me, i had no idea that konami deliberately avoided making stepfiles specifically for the AAA crowd. Although im wondering what the general reaction was to the new hard charts in 4th mix + as im not sure if you covered that exactly (It was like 4am when i read it and im gonna read it again later) because i remember someone mentioning they were considering going in that general direction with their charts but they recieved a lot of complaints and dialled it down big time for 5th mix?

I actually had started writing something similar about what i know in the UK scene but the problem with that is i was 10 when it started here (And when i started) so the first 6 years of my time with DDR and music games in general it was from the view of a member of the general public, rather than the hardcore crowd. So it'd be unusual to read something about the general of how the game developed from someone who was on holiday and was only planning on having one go on the machine not realising it was going to turn into something he would play for over 50% of his life Tongue

Post #84 · Posted at 2011-05-24 10:40:04pm 12.9 years ago

Offline seishinbyou
seishinbyou Avatar Member
617 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2010-07-08

Game Center Nickname: aijbot
"Wow, 4 types of corn!"
Okay....

PanStyle > http://aaronin.jp/JDDR.pdf

After reading some of the comments here and on AIJ, I may very well make a Revision 41 at least, but it will mostly be what I address below (in this post)

KcLKcL > That is what I was thinking looking through my books on the shelf as a reference. The Arcade Mania book is 7.3 x 5.2 x 0.6 inches so 6 x 9 is a fair compromise if I can condense the text a bit to a somewhat normal size for that size of book. It's going to take a bit of tweaking to get it all to fit right, I think, but that is just part of the process.

On Yasu, I might add a final section "Personal Addendum" after all that addresses a bit of what happened to some of the older players and mention some of the extreme contrasts (again) between the music game (DDR) mentality in Japan and how it was perceived to be overseas from a Japanese perspective.

Dancefreak > Thanks for the read. I don't think I specifically mentioned the response to the new hard charts in 4th+ actually, though I'll see if I mentioned elsewhere that basically the masses didn't really have an interest in the hardest charts themselves (though it was a thrill to see someone pass it well). Some players made those kinds of charts (edit data) as a joke, but those kinds of charts weren't viewed so favourably when they were official charts. Now that I think about it, it is very similar to the "meh, it is bizarre that such charts exists, but I won't play it" attitude towards some of the RDA Challenge stepcharts on DDRX2. They are fun to watch other people play it.

*Update*

In related news I have been asked if this essay/book can be translated to Russian as a Russian version is apparantely in demand in the Belaruse and Ukraine communities in particular. Heh, who knew?

Also, I made a few updates. Some to the glossary, a blurb about the S-Maniac steps from 4th+ and a 5 page addendum at the end to reflect on a few things and answer a few questions I got during the initial writing phases (and after the essay had been out for a while) I tried to steer clear of too much direct controversy but there were differences and views/opinions I thought should get out at least.

So, the current version is Revision 41

http://aaronin.jp/JDDR.pdf
http://aaronin.jp/shashin/konmainewbanner.jpg

Post #85 · Posted at 2011-05-25 12:13:19am 12.9 years ago

Offline Daiz
Daiz Avatar Member+
1,465 Posts
United States
Reg. 2008-10-29

3DS Friend Code: 0490-4991-3615
"TAKING IT TO THE PIE"
Just reread it, awesome read. I find it intriguing that my general opinion about Dance Dance Revolution falls right in line with the typical Japanese player and it goes a long way to explain why Konami doesn't "listen to the American fan base".

Post #86 · Posted at 2011-05-31 07:58:49pm 12.9 years ago

Offline seishinbyou
seishinbyou Avatar Member
617 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2010-07-08

Game Center Nickname: aijbot
"Wow, 4 types of corn!"
Thanks for the reread.

Okay, the 6'x9' book is 184 pages after some reworking. If I can touch it up a bit more and check for any glaring errors when I'm not so tired, I can just put together some quick cover design and then I can put it all up on lulu.com for sale immediately after (and PDFs for those that want to print it themselves)

EDIT> Also, newest revision is 42, but I only changed one slight grammatical error so it isn't much of a change.

http://aij.ddruk.com/shashin/ddrbookcover.jpg

For Sale at LuLu.com here - $8.18 US (shipping extra)

I can only release this book at cost legally due to copyright issues and such (educational purposes only, not to be used for a profit, etc. according to US Fair Use laws).

However, I will also make all the PDFs available too in case you wish to print it off yourself at Kinko's or wherever. Note that the print edition uses B&W (greyscale) prints inside to keep the cost down (the cover is in color). A full color book through them of this size is over $20 US. If there is demand, I can make one available, however.

Book Cover (front/back - color)
http://aaronin.jp/ddrbook_cover.pdf

Inside 184 pages (Black and White)
http://aaronin.jp/JDDR_book_bw.pdf

Inside 184 pages (Color)
http://aaronin.jp/JDDR_book.pdf

Original A4 sized book contents:
http://aaronin.jp/JDDR.pdf


Yes, there may still be a few slight errors in this, but I can always revise the contents on lulu should I need to/make another revision. I'm just happy to finally get it out there.

EDIT> And it figures the minute I get it up on lulu I have a few people ready to correct some English/grammar errors (where were they all before?) Still, it doesn't affect anyone who ordered the book since it doesn't ship out for another day or two.

I updated the original JDDR.pdf file. It should be revision 43 now. The ones in the book still say Revision 42 but they are up to date as well. If I updated the book files again I'll reflect that in revision 44.

Right now the only big change I might consider is making the images and inlayed comments in some box and fix the text adjustment around them.

Here are most of the changes made in the last revision (based on the page numbering of the original A4 sized essay/book)

Quote
Just a small suggestion but when you first use the term, I think I only noticed two (DDR and BBS), maybe paren them with their abbreviation meanings.

Page 26 last paragraph, first sentence, lever should be level.

Page 39 (this could be the pdf formatting as well) the word the by the picture is missing its e

Page 53 Since you haven't been abbreviating other words, I think information should be spelled out instead of info. (I do think it's ok to abbreviate in the special thanks section)

Page 62-63 The sentence seems like it could be worded a little bit to make it flow a little better. Maybe something like "Many thought this was the last release of DDR and slowly players moved on to other games, Beatmania IIDX for example, even the most hardcore players of the time.

Page 66 I think the last sentence in the paragraph starting with the Although the game wouldn't...is ok without the parenthesis, maybe just remove them, and it was missing a period after your final paren.

Unfortunately,
some of those that quit DDR when they were finished with DDR Extreme, including some of the more hardcore players, and would not return, though others would join and take their place.

Page 75 last paragraph, 2nd sentence, step should be steps

Page 86 Again could be pdf formatting issues, but it looks like the picture is blocking out the word game, and maybe a few more words

page 88 Last paragraph, tournaments is used twice back to back in the first sentence, maybe remove the 'in tournaments', and then add the world and before "many tournaments' ...Marvelous judgment, though admittedly since the scoring system reflected that as well as put even weight on the score for each step, and many tournaments...

Page 97 Start of the second paragraph on the page, addition is used twice here, maybe replace the second addition with, a patch or update to the ...released soon after launch would allow players...

Page 100 Final sentence, The way the story is flowing at this point it might sound better to reword it as "It took an entire year after the release of DDRX before the harder step charts start to emerge."

Oh hey, pictures!

http://aij.ddruk.com/shashin/aaronbook1.jpg
http://aij.ddruk.com/shashin/aaronbook2.jpg
http://aij.ddruk.com/shashin/aaronbook3.jpg
http://aij.ddruk.com/shashin/aaronbook4.jpg

http://aaronin.jp/shashin/konmainewbanner.jpg

Post #87 · Posted at 2011-06-01 01:11:40am 12.9 years ago

Offline PanStyle
PanStyle Avatar Member
1,054 Posts
France
Reg. 2007-07-05

That's a sexy cover, i love it.
How do you feel now that you are done with it (and that you can have your book, for real) ?
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/lordtoon/User%20Names/PanStyle.png http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/ddrsig/1336.png?t=1284597568

Post #88 · Posted at 2011-06-01 02:48:59am 12.9 years ago

Offline AeronPeryton
AeronPeryton Avatar Member+
4,338 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2007-03-03

"Give me a steady beat."
Smile @ the famous picture of Yasu

Post #89 · Posted at 2011-06-01 04:29:44am 12.9 years ago

Offline seishinbyou
seishinbyou Avatar Member
617 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2010-07-08

Game Center Nickname: aijbot
"Wow, 4 types of corn!"
It feels neat that I can actually hold my book. I know this is self-publishing through lulu and it doesn't have a registered ISBN because of legal issues with Konami but even so, it is neat to be able to hold it. (For reference, that aijbot poetry book will have an ISBN and be available on Amazon but that is a much longer process)

It looks like the font is massive in the previews and the book itself, too, but it isn't so bad once you hold it and read it. The font spacing still looks big though it makes it feel like a light read (which is maybe all it is). I could definitely condense it to a more portable and compact size should I want to make another edition.

The only thing that kind of bothers me is that it looks like it does when I typed it up, so it has that "printout" feel as opposed to a book for me, just because I have tinkered with the contents so much, though. Fortunately, if I ever want a revision 2 or different sized print, etc., I can make one up and put that on the store/lulu immediately after anyways.
http://aaronin.jp/shashin/konmainewbanner.jpg

Post #90 · Posted at 2011-06-11 12:57:09am 12.8 years ago

Offline skateinmars
skateinmars Avatar Member
80 Posts
France
Reg. 2010-07-31

I just heard your book will be available in Paris (at Japan Expo), I'll be sure to pick up a copy !
A few copies are also available in Toulouse (south-west of France).

Thanks for putting this together !

Post #91 · Posted at 2011-06-11 06:16:06am 12.8 years ago

Offline seishinbyou
seishinbyou Avatar Member
617 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2010-07-08

Game Center Nickname: aijbot
"Wow, 4 types of corn!"
Really? Wow.

Can you get a picture of this or find someone to do that? It would really mean a lot to me to see that it is available so far away from here. In any case, I'm glad to get such a reception. It's amazing to me to hear that.

Are these the ones from lulu.com or did whomever get them print out the PDFs, I wonder. I talked to Kinko's here and it was 3,000 yen at standard rates to rent the computer, print out 184 pages + cover, and then bind it together. I hope they used the 6x9 B&W PDF innards and not the old A4 sized contents. The A4 is fine and all but I made some small touches like greyed areas around the photos and rearranged the contents to fit on 6x9.

I regret that there is no French version but I am more than willing to collaborate on a French edition. That Arcade Mania book I was in was also printed in French, come to think of it (available from Pix 'n Love). Also, I am collaborating on a Russian version of the Japanese DDR history book anyways.

EDIT> Ah, I see where it was posted:

http://www.bemani-inside.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=179
(My French is awful though so I am not positive on what this says)

Quote
Aaron Chmielowiec, joueur de DDR très connu dans le milieu de DDR (surtout par les anciens) a écrit un livre en anglais de 184 pages "Combo's Continuing -A history of the Japanese DDR Community 1998-2010-" !

Pour réduire les frais de port, j'ai commandé 10 exemplaires. Du coup, le livre est moins cher en passant par ici ^^,
À noter que je ne gagne rien à le faire, y'a pas d'arnaque ^^

Pour les fans de DDR, 10 exemplaires sont donc dispo à 10 euros sur Toulouse (ou au Japan Expo).

Paypal, liquide, virement.

http://tof.canardpc.com/view/a6e9f78c-a6c5-406b-bb6e-3da930ad6621.jpg
http://aaronin.jp/shashin/konmainewbanner.jpg

Post #92 · Posted at 2011-06-13 08:25:00am 12.8 years ago

Offline skateinmars
skateinmars Avatar Member
80 Posts
France
Reg. 2010-07-31

This is where I saw it indeed.

I'd enjoy a french version of your book but I believe most of the people who'd be interested could read it in english.
That said a few publishers (such as Pix'n Love who translated the Takahashi Meijin biography) specialize in video games books and could be interested.

Post #93 · Posted at 2011-06-13 08:52:54am 12.8 years ago

Offline iNEXSERTiON
iNEXSERTiON Avatar Member+
2,070 Posts
United States
Reg. 2010-07-14

How much is a copy? Smile
I stole DDR X2 CS from the internet; it's my fault the music game genre is dying.

Post #94 · Posted at 2011-06-13 08:57:21am 12.8 years ago

Offline aeubanks
aeubanks Avatar Member
356 Posts
United States
Reg. 2010-12-25

Quote: iNEXSERTiON
How much is a copy? Smile
Quote: seishenbyou
For Sale at LuLu.com here - $8.18 US (shipping extra)

Post #95 · Posted at 2011-06-13 07:28:02pm 12.8 years ago

Offline iNEXSERTiON
iNEXSERTiON Avatar Member+
2,070 Posts
United States
Reg. 2010-07-14

Quote: aeubanks
Quote: iNEXSERTiON
How much is a copy? Smile
Quote: seishenbyou
For Sale at LuLu.com here - $8.18 US (shipping extra)

Thank you~
I stole DDR X2 CS from the internet; it's my fault the music game genre is dying.

Post #96 · Posted at 2011-06-13 09:52:09pm 12.8 years ago

Offline n00b_saib0t
n00b_saib0t Avatar Member
2,302 Posts
United States
Reg. 2007-02-05

Nintendo Network ID: n00bsaib0tNintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-7875-2425-72033DS Friend Code: 4871-6557-4900
"F***ing exhausted."
Quote: seishinbyou
a blurb about the S-Maniac steps from 4th+

I haven't had a chance to read the .pdf yet, but do you call them that? Technically, the S-Maniac steps are the old step charts, when you press right-right (as you're likely familiar with, the way to enter edit data) on a song with a new singles Maniac chart, the old one is included as an edit labled "S-Maniac" ("D-Maniac" on doubles). This might seem nitpicky, but if I was making a book I would want 100% correct info and terminology, ya know?

Also, if we buy it do you see royalties and stuff since you can't copyright it, or does all the money go to the site we order through? I'll order one when you're definitely done with it provided you actually get the money, support my community and all that.
Quote: sharibetsu in The Unwritten Rules of ZIv thread
Any popular thread must have at least one debate between n00b_saib0t and someone else.

Post #97 · Posted at 2011-06-13 10:17:03pm 12.8 years ago

Offline seishinbyou
seishinbyou Avatar Member
617 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2010-07-08

Game Center Nickname: aijbot
"Wow, 4 types of corn!"
The way I worded it was:

Quote
Although 4th+ was released not too long after 4th mix, one
additional change was the inclusion of some notably
harder step charts for some of the older songs. In
retrospect it might have been an attempt to raise the
difficulty bar in the game but even though it was a thrill
to see someone play and clear these charts, they were
seen as a bit too intimidating for some players and they
didn’t get nearly as much play time as other charts/songs
in the game anyways. Perhaps it was just too soon for
that kind of a jump in difficulty.

I'm trying to focus on the players/community and attitudes rather than specifics of the game, and trying to keep in mind that someone reading the book may not be an uber DDR-nerd; just have an interest in the game and/or community (social interest)

Quote
This might seem nitpicky, but if I was making a book I would want 100% correct info and terminology, ya know?

Understood. Though, if you are making a book with opinions and social commentary, it will never be 100%. The info. and terminology as it pertains to the game are a backdrop for the players. I can convey the majority opinions/views and share some of the other minority/extreme views to contrast but there is no "one size fits all" unless I made the book a 100% technical book on DDR...and that might be an interesting project, actually. Also note that even though I know what the local Japanese players are saying, there is always going to be something lost in translation, but that is just the way translation goes. I try to remain as accurate as possible in the technical sense but by the same token I'm just walking into a trap by delving too far into specifics not relevant to the initial argument (and there is the increased possibility of an error or inconsistency along the way). I am not some great writer, but considering the content and opinions all come from me (via Japanese and foreign communities) and I am writing the book, I have to be the one to push it forward and get it out sometime (a half year after starting to the time it got to print in this case).

If you are concerned with the price and wasting money, I provide the book PDFs for free. You are free to print them yourself or just read them on your PC/mobile device. I can even update them and the book contents on lulu.com if need be (new revisions).

Please understand that print moves extremely slow. The same went for the Arcade Mania book I was in (which needed to be revised a couple times in my Chapter between the initial interview and when it went to print). Some things go out of date. DDR is still going on now. If the DDR series finished in Japan with DDR Extreme, it would be a more concise book and I could expand on the specifics a lot more, but the community branched out and changed over the years and it has been a pretty mammoth effort taking the opinions from the local players and groups, some of which I hadn't been in contact with for years.

Oh, about the profit, I don't make any personally. The cost is only the printing cost of the book (which is actually not bad. Go price out at Kinko's how much they charge to print out 184 pages, the cover, and then bind it for a comparison, though). Granted, I have heard mixed stories about the shipping prices. This project/book is just something I wanted to do. It has been getting some attention in the foreign fan clubs and communities, mostly across Europe

/me needlessly long post
http://aaronin.jp/shashin/konmainewbanner.jpg

Post #98 · Posted at 2011-06-14 02:19:27am 12.8 years ago

Offline AeronPeryton
AeronPeryton Avatar Member+
4,338 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2007-03-03

"Give me a steady beat."
I had access to a 4thMIX PLUS machine a long time ago. The older Maniac charts were included as edits titled thusly:

MANIAC-S = for a replaced Singles chart

MANIAC-D = for a replaced Doubles chart

I never quite figured out how people came to call pre-MAX Challenge charts "S Maniac" other than one of the "Dancing Stage featuring" games has a Super Maniac setting that is above the normal Maniac charts.

Aaron is correct to say that these charts were almost always referred to as S-Maniac, because despite everything they were.

Post #99 · Posted at 2011-06-14 04:25:06am 12.8 years ago

Offline seishinbyou
seishinbyou Avatar Member
617 Posts
Japan
Reg. 2010-07-08

Game Center Nickname: aijbot
"Wow, 4 types of corn!"
I tried to refer to things how the locals did for a bit of flavour but didn't want to say anything was officially defined that way by Konami or anything. I was tempted to go into some of the local DDR slang but in the end it wasn't really useful other than providing a chuckle or two and it was mostly related to song titles..

e.g. Purin (Pudding) = Pluto Relinquish, and the difficulties were "flavours" of the song
(ichigo purin (Strawberry Pudding) - Pluto Relinquish Standard, maccha purin (Green Tea Pudding) - Pluto Relinquish Expert.

Torikura - Trip Machine Climax
Torisaba - Trip Machine Survivor (written in Kanji as 鳥鯖 (Bird, Mackeral)
Parasaba - Paranoia Survivor
Tenhi - Healing Vision Angelic Mix
and of course Tengoku (heaven) - .59 (ten go ku)

There are several others but you get the point
http://aaronin.jp/shashin/konmainewbanner.jpg

Post #100 · Posted at 2011-06-21 11:08:02am 12.8 years ago

Offline Sinborn
Sinborn Avatar Member
2 Posts
Not Set
Reg. 2010-11-18

That was a great read and just in time. I was feeling brutally nostalgic about the game after reminding myself that I was going to California Extreme, haha.
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