DDR X2 vs ITG2: King of the 4-panel

In The Groove and DanceDanceRevolution have always been long time rivals. Leading to discussion post after discussion post to which game series stands out the best. In this topic, I am going to lay out the features for both In The Groove 2 (in addition to its extension OpenGroove) and DanceDanceRevolution X2 give my opinion about both games and then let you all turn loose on each other to determine the King of 4 panel Dance Games.

First let's review the features of DDR X2, I personally believe this is probably the best DDR arcade version of all time. With a far more attractive list of licenses, Konami Original songs, and features, this version has been a breath of fresh air everyone has been seeking for the past eight years.

Licenses
with returning songs like Captain Jack, if you were here, hero, in addition to new licenses like everytime we touch, time after time, feel good inc., and combined with the licenses from 2008's DDR X and the best of SuperNOVA and SN2, this games gives the same nostalgic feel like the DDRMAX series of games. DDR always have had the edge with licenses and really took advantage of them this year.

Konami Original Songs
Unlike the last two years of home versions in North America, this arcade version makes use of many more songs than just those by Naoki, which is a good thing. DDR X2 brought alot of great crossovers from BMIIDX and Pop'n which again makes this game feel like one from the old days. And with boss songs that are not only challenging but actually make sense, The entire song list this mix is extremely coveted.

Features
Things for DDR has changed over the years, such as the inclusion of shock arrows, the now pernament Marvelous step timing, and the new edit mode using USB, thing in DDR are very well balenced.

Shock Arrows are not being used nearly as much I think in this mix than what they were in DDR X, and that is a good thing. If anything they are getting the idea of how they are suppose to be used.

I like how the scoring mechanics now since introduced in SuperNOVA 2. Arrows have a marvellous timing, a AAA is achived with a 99% to perfect score. Breaking a freeze arrow or hitting a shock arrow breaks the combo. Things are just right.

I am a little envious of the e-amusement features of DDR X2 in Japan and will be disappointed that we will not be seeing them, such as the Fast/Slow mark next to the step judgement, and the target percentage option that shows after each step how close you are from beating a choosen record. Since X2 North America will not have e-amusement, its obvious that those features will be unaccessable.

I like the options menu now, speed now intervals every .5 from 1 to 8 with .5 and .25 available. Boost has brake and wave as well, and boy I love the idea of Hidden+ and Sudden+, adjustable blinds are a great way to really train for certain songs and that will put replay value on the machine because it makes it more attractive to practice than a home version. I also like the idea of risky because its a way of precision training for songs not found in challenge courses on the machine.

USB edit mode is awesome, the only disadvatage being having to use the web based editor. Once again it gives more replay value than SuperNOVA or SuperNOVA 2.

Happy Mode is another feature that stands out. Happy mode is finally the perfect way of getting new players to play with out getting bored, failing early, or be overwhelmed with featues that experienced players use. The use of happy mode should really increase the value of this well balanced game.

Hardware
I can't wait to play a DDR X2 dedicated cabinet because it looks like they finally got the pad assembly back to normal since DDR extreme (based on all of the videos I have seen). While it still does not have the decorative light treatments to that of a japanese cabinet, the combination of the huge lcd screen and new pad assembly, beats all of the past models easily.

All in all Konami has a winner on their hands with DDR X2. While not all of the songs and features from the Japanese version will be seen in the N. A. version, this game still makes DDR the choice game for anyone to play.

Disadvantages are still evident with DDR, however most are merely cosmetic, such as the annoying MC introduced in DDR X is still there (1st through 5th mix's MC is still the best), lack of options to give additional challenges to challenge one mental capacity is still not up to par with ITG or Stepmania. Emi got breast implants it seems and still dances in the background on crazy sur-relistic stages with all the other DDR characters (I miss the stylish backgrounds from the DDRMAX series as they were not as distracting).

In The Groove 2
Everyone knows pretty well the features about ITG since it is now a 5 year old dance game. Unlike DDR, ITG takes a more a hardcore perspective, and is really more of a stepping rythym game than a dancing game. ITG maintains its appeal with the same open coded features as its base program stepmania all wrapped in a commercial product. Options come in all shapes and sizes changing which way the arrows come from, moving the step zone, and so much more, it really is a great hardcore players game. The inclusion of scripted modifers in courses also is a perk once again appealing to the hardcore player base. Another great thing about ITG is the more friendlier way to interact with Stepmania through edit charts and more importantly custom songs. One can take his or hers own works and play them for everyone else to see, which is okay because he or she created or obtained that content for their own use. So ITG is a perfect dance game for hardcore players.

Disadvantages with ITG it is not very new player friendly than that of DDR, sure Novice diffculty enables a C120 speed mod, to give players a fair chance against the large number of high BPM songs in the game, but that unfortunately places a huge learning curve between Novice and Easy. Next the songs, no license in the game is a mainstream song. In addition no original song compares to the quality of konami original songs. Let's face it kyle ward is a naoki wannabe. While I mentioned it a strength, custom songs is also a weakness, because it makes a arcade vulernable for persons trying to play songs like "Banjo Thing" which can cause severe problems for the arcade. And ITG2 without custom songs enabled with not make an arcade money, another reason why the ingame song content why ITG doesn't stack up to DDR.

The biggest thing in my opinion that kills In The Groove is opengroove which is a hack to pretty well turn a ITG machine into a Stepmania machine. I feel this is a bad thing to do to an ITG machine because it allows for custom songs to be pernamently stored onto the machine, in which the machine owner must take responsiblity for the content, which is bad because to me unless they went out of their way to obtain business licenses for such content, that to me is direct music pirating. Secondly, hacking the machine pretty well destroys the value of the machine in the first place, not that this is a big of a issue, but you are pretty well destroying someone else's work where as the indivdual custom song features expands on it to your own personal pleasure. Lastly, I have reason to believe OpenGroove is unstable and can cause pernament damage to the machine potientially making it unplayable.

So overall, I would have to say ITG and its sucessor ITG2 did steal the 4 panel crown from DDR Extreme in 2004 and held it tightly for over 5 years, because it was breaking what would have been an eternal silence since DDR Extreme was suppose to be the last DDR. But now DDR has finally earned the right to be King of the 4 panel again, with a fair balenced game suitable for all players and a large library of songs. DDR X2 is worth it for any arcade in my opinion and I perfer it over ITG2 any day. However that is just my opinion. Have fun debating this because I have had my say and probably wont respond unless I mispresented my debate in any way.

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I know that's just your opinion and you have every right to it, you are very clearly biased against ITG.


This may be true in certain instances, but it's a pretty pessimistic outlook. As long as arcade operators are actively involved in the operation of a machine, song content can be regulated and everyone can be happy. As long as a machine is modified properly and you are abiding by the operator's rules, you are absolutely not destroying anyone else's work, you are simply expanding upon the existing ITG2 engine. You may see this as a bad thing, but I see as the aspect that puts it over the edge. I love being able to play whatever I want (including X2 content) and my own stepcharts, it simply gives me more options when I'm playing. I also love playing Marathons and Survivals on occasion, I think they are a great change of pace from just playing stepcharts.

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This thread is a huge freight train of raeg and flaming waiting to happen.
Haven't we already had a few of these anyway?

Anyway, in my opinion, DDR X2 is a very well polished game. It has far more songs I like than the default ITG lineup,
and the ability to change speed mods at the start of a song if you screw up is a godsend. Lots of care has gone into little details
(3.5x rate mod, screen filter) to make the game more appealing to my preferred style of play.

But ITG's openGroove turning ITG into a Stepmania machine, is something that I actually like a lot.
The openITG at my local arcade did not have USB ports, so it was not possible for any other players to add songs without
opening the machine. However, the songs that were packed into it (winDEU's sims, MungyoDance 1-3, some others) made it
a great machine that was a lot of fun to play.

I would be sad if either game never existed, because I do enjoy playing both.

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That's a really well-written and detailed post, but before the flames are lit..

You have to decide whether you're judging ITG as being either :

a) A standalone game, which is judged solely on the content which is part of the actual game

or

b) A tool with which to play any and all 4-panel stepfiles that exist.

Once you've decided that, you have to decide whether you judge both ITG and DDR based on :

1) The appeal and enjoyment they offer to us, a very small audience who play both games all day, and then spend all night talking to like minded people on this forum

2) The appeal and enjoyment they offer to the entire videogaming and arcade-visiting populace.

or

3) Their critical reception and mass-market success.

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The only fair conclusion I can reach is that the best 4-panel game in my eyes is Stepmania. It has all the benefits of ITG, but none of the restrictions. I don't think ITG ever managed to live upto DDR on it's own merits.

aside from this, i felt the article was well written. DDR and PIU, released in the same year, have been rivals. ITG was gunning for DDRs spot and was stomped down by konami after a couple years, not exactly something i would classify as "always". they were rivals at one point, now DDR vs ITG is kinda like having two athletes who were competitive at one point but then one went pro and the other was left behind. sure some people still play ITG just like some people still know who that other athlete was and argue that he was better than the one who went pro, but in the end DDR and the pro athlete won their rivalries. rivalry isnt about being better, its about winning, which konami did rather swiftly and mercilessly. i wish konami had done it by making better games (IMO the past 3 arcade releases before X2 were very, very bad) but a win is a win.

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All too true.. I agree that Stepmania is the best of both ITG and DDR. IMO, what make Stepmania the best is that it is customable. There are dozens of themes, announcers, noteskins, Stepcharts (DDR, ITG, and originals), movies and dancing characters if they (dancing characters) suits your liking.

However, I'm glad that DDRX2 has finally went back to what made DDR fun. I personally felt like that the quality of DDR songs when down when DDR Extreme was released. Songs started getting better with the DDR X series but some songs had really STUPID stepcharts (Dead End Groove Special).

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I think the original ITG was more of a loving tribute to DDR.

When it came to actually release the game in arcades, the game's audience decided that it should be an aggressive competitor.

I would think that ITG is another attempt at a dancing game, but always felt like just a spinoff of DDR. The only reason I will play it when I have the chance are the features that DDR does not have that it contains. (mines and hands to be exact)

The problem with custom songs is that it can fracture the community. After all, how many packs (or individual files for that matter) have eclipsed the community that nearly every hardcore player is familiar with it and attempts to get the best possible score they can on it? From what I've seen, very few. Yet, hardcore players tend to try to AAA every song in arcade DDR games. Why? Because most songs that appear in arcade DDR games are universally known by hardcore players everywhere. It's hard to explain, but it creates a sense of shared experience. To me, ITG custom and Stepmania players are playing the same "concept" but DDR players (and ITG official) are playing the same "game".

Plus, X2 has a fucking IF YOU WERE HERE remix by L.E.D.

lol no

"We're Starting Over" != "The End"

Konami planned Extreme to be the last AC DDR before a lengthy hiatus, I mean seriously would KCET have even bothered with CS version production between 2003 and 2006 if that was the case?

The "DDR Generation NEXT" thing was dropped very early on. I think the first time it was referred to by Konami as "DDR Extreme" was the blog post where they announced BeForYou - Graduation as the first song, and explained that the game's theme was that the DDR team were all graduating onto other projects, and having one final party to go out with a bang?

For reference, the CS releases between Extreme and SuperNOVA were :

A "Greatest Hits" compilation

A game consisting almost entirely of material lifted from american XBox and PS2 games.

A second game consisting almost entirely of material lifted from american XBox games, where they actually made a big deal about the fact that it featured a new song from Naoki & Paula Terry.

Meh, I'll let the foreign communities fight it out. ITG isn't even on the radar or even available in Japan so X2 wins (or something) by default here.

Edit> I do agree with Pie-Kun that "The problem with custom songs is that it can fracture the community" though at the same time I like that ITG has so much customization potential.

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As tyma has said, I think ITG machines now are a way for people to play SM songs that they love in an arcade format.
I very rarely see people play the ITG originals, and on the local machine, they get new customs, get most or all of them starred, then instantly move on to the next new pack.

Unfortunately, it's not really hard for people to get those high scores anymore, since most songs are just 16th streams with simple patterns for 7 minutes. I think you could take almost every song released now and change the track its played to, you'll get the same results.

There's no songs that have any particular character for me. DDR and the original ITG songs did. You could walk up to any DDR player and say "I AAA'ed max 300" and you'd get hi 5'ed. You could walk up to any ITG player and say "I starred Vertex single expert" and people would do backflips.

Now it's kinda like... oh you passed a 19? ok. I passed a 27. What song was it? oh I don't know. It had lots of 16ths and 24ths though.

It's been scientifically proven, that too much choice can be a bad thing.
Custom songs and hacking are really diluting the community of ITG. They pride themselves on being strong and tight knit, but even now you can read the forums and see there's not much there now.

I personally think customs should have damn well stayed on the USB's.

In any case, comparing the ITG original songs and DDR X2 - X2 of course. But I LOVE ITG aswell.

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first in the world

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