Post #1 · Posted at 2008-11-24 06:11:55am 16.6 years ago
 Shinji16 | |
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An off-topic conversation started *HERE* on arcades and how "good" ones are rare. The topic of the idea that good arcades are a dying breed in the US has been on my mind a lot lately, and I thought I'd see what the people here on Zenius thought on the issue.
Do you think arcades are dying? If so, what is the cause? I remember seeing a small tidbit in Game Informer magazine that some arcades in Japan had closed, and blame on was the Wii selling well, keeping more of gaming in the home.
My opinion is that arcades are slowly dying here in the US, partly from the home console being more successful now, but also from owner/operate neglect or indifference. A huge pet peeve of mine is seeing a machine unplayable from what could be a simple part replacement (such as a fighter with a broken punch button), and the owner just doesn't care, as "the rest of it works fine".
Discuss!
Do you think arcades are dying? If so, what is the cause? I remember seeing a small tidbit in Game Informer magazine that some arcades in Japan had closed, and blame on was the Wii selling well, keeping more of gaming in the home.
My opinion is that arcades are slowly dying here in the US, partly from the home console being more successful now, but also from owner/operate neglect or indifference. A huge pet peeve of mine is seeing a machine unplayable from what could be a simple part replacement (such as a fighter with a broken punch button), and the owner just doesn't care, as "the rest of it works fine".
Discuss!
Post #2 · Posted at 2008-11-24 06:14:25am 16.6 years ago
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...well there is a GH AC coming out in 2009...this may bump up arcade attendance...
But other than that, they have to create SOMETHING that will make people come back to the arcades >_>
But other than that, they have to create SOMETHING that will make people come back to the arcades >_>
Post #3 · Posted at 2008-11-24 06:18:15am 16.6 years ago
| mageman17 | |
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I'm not an arcade type of guy, but I think maybe it's because of the genre. From what I know, the very common genre in arcades is the fighting genre. I don't think I have seen an arcade without any fighting games...
Long story short, the home consoles offer game genres typically unsuitable for arcades (like adventure).
Long story short, the home consoles offer game genres typically unsuitable for arcades (like adventure).
Post #4 · Posted at 2008-11-24 06:19:19am 16.6 years ago
| Shinji16 | |
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I've "seen" the GH cab indirectly, as we're (my arcade, Tokyo Game Action) going to be getting it. I don't think a single cab can save arcades, but the theory that the actual games in arcades just don't have as much draw. I've heard the debate that "home consoles can deliver more" in regards to graphics and sound, but I think the idea that consoles have better content is stronger.
@Max: So, if not GH, what else do you think could draw people back? The music niche is an obvious target, and it's sad to not see more aggressive moves by Bemani on that front.
EDIT: Wow, fast replies. Yeah, fighters are a common staple.
@Mage: What genre do you think is most responsible? I'd argue sports, but there are football arcade games that are still doing alright. When I've been to Dave and Busters here in the states, I've always seen the football/golf/tennis ones getting a lot of play. Perhaps RPG/adventure as you mentioned?
@Max: So, if not GH, what else do you think could draw people back? The music niche is an obvious target, and it's sad to not see more aggressive moves by Bemani on that front.
EDIT: Wow, fast replies. Yeah, fighters are a common staple.
@Mage: What genre do you think is most responsible? I'd argue sports, but there are football arcade games that are still doing alright. When I've been to Dave and Busters here in the states, I've always seen the football/golf/tennis ones getting a lot of play. Perhaps RPG/adventure as you mentioned?
Post #5 · Posted at 2008-11-24 06:39:56am 16.6 years ago
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Well if not GH, i would LOVE to see Street Fighter IV to the arcades...sadly, they stated that there will be no AC for SFIV, strictly CS =(
Case in point, Fighting games are a must. Another arcade genre i would prefer would have to be racing. I have been playing Maximum Tune 3 at my local Gameworks and it is pretty cool. i play using manual (don't play with automatic because you won't really "feel" the experience with automatic). Shooting games are also good too, we need more good shooting games (i love Ghost Recon Squad.)
And if not that, then some new style of arcade, kinda like that one arcade machine where you go in it and the whole thing spins around (It was this defend your base type machine where you "sat" on a turret and you controlled it...that was fun
).
Case in point, Fighting games are a must. Another arcade genre i would prefer would have to be racing. I have been playing Maximum Tune 3 at my local Gameworks and it is pretty cool. i play using manual (don't play with automatic because you won't really "feel" the experience with automatic). Shooting games are also good too, we need more good shooting games (i love Ghost Recon Squad.)
And if not that, then some new style of arcade, kinda like that one arcade machine where you go in it and the whole thing spins around (It was this defend your base type machine where you "sat" on a turret and you controlled it...that was fun
).Post #6 · Posted at 2008-11-24 06:56:57am 16.6 years ago
| mageman17 | |
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I don't give a care about GH. Sorry!!!
shinji: I don't know, there's fighting games, rhythm games (includes ddr), other simulation games (racing, motorbike, etc.), "shoot 'em up with light guns" games. Any one of those could be the culprit.
shinji: I don't know, there's fighting games, rhythm games (includes ddr), other simulation games (racing, motorbike, etc.), "shoot 'em up with light guns" games. Any one of those could be the culprit.
Post #7 · Posted at 2008-11-24 07:46:31am 16.6 years ago
| roy2009xedit | |
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Why is arcade activity declining? Simple: home versions. While the arcade version has a certain vibe that no CS game can recreate (e.g. on DDR, you can't have the exact same pads used in the arcade at home, so you have to settle for lower quality; there's also the matter of lower song count), most people think "Easy decision. Why would I drive to an arcade, wait my turn, and pay to play when I have the same game at home for free?"
Arcade isn't close to being dead, but like many other mediums, it will disappear as we know it by the time our kids reach our age.
Arcade isn't close to being dead, but like many other mediums, it will disappear as we know it by the time our kids reach our age.
Post #8 · Posted at 2008-11-24 08:58:40am 16.6 years ago
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Quote: RoyBoyCF
Why is arcade activity declining? Simple: home versions. While the arcade version has a certain vibe that no CS game can recreate (e.g. on DDR, you can't have the exact same pads used in the arcade at home, so you have to settle for lower quality; there's also the matter of lower song count), most people think "Easy decision. Why would I drive to an arcade, wait my turn, and pay to play when I have the same game at home for free?"
Arcade isn't close to being dead, but like many other mediums, it will disappear as we know it by the time our kids reach our age.
well putArcade isn't close to being dead, but like many other mediums, it will disappear as we know it by the time our kids reach our age.
my friend said the exact same thing. some people don't understand that the arcade gameplay is a different chapter compared to home gameplay.
Post #9 · Posted at 2008-11-24 10:42:00am 16.6 years ago
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There's so much to talk about with this topic I'm trying to think what I could add.
Let me link this article since it covers a lot of points - State of the U.S. Arcade Industry
I really don't think arcades are dying, I think there's just a lack of people interested in getting them going. With less arcades around, you have to rely on a console since it isn't convenient to have to drive a long distance just to play a game. I think most arcade owners of old time probably only started them up since it was probably an easy way to make money. If arcades today have little attendance, there's no incentive for someone to get into the business since they won't view it as profitable. It's almost like a cycle which pushes people toward consoles. I guess arcades are more stuck in a rut and need to evolve at this point to deal with all the issues plaguing them.
I think unfortunately it's a niche thing as well. I go to this arcade in Simi Valley called Denjin Arcade and they mainly have fighting games. It feels catered toward a certain audience, and while it drives those in, it might make some people feel excluded since they might not want to play those games. Especially with fighting games, if you have no experience, you might feel intimidated to play against other people.
Let me link this article since it covers a lot of points - State of the U.S. Arcade Industry
I really don't think arcades are dying, I think there's just a lack of people interested in getting them going. With less arcades around, you have to rely on a console since it isn't convenient to have to drive a long distance just to play a game. I think most arcade owners of old time probably only started them up since it was probably an easy way to make money. If arcades today have little attendance, there's no incentive for someone to get into the business since they won't view it as profitable. It's almost like a cycle which pushes people toward consoles. I guess arcades are more stuck in a rut and need to evolve at this point to deal with all the issues plaguing them.
I think unfortunately it's a niche thing as well. I go to this arcade in Simi Valley called Denjin Arcade and they mainly have fighting games. It feels catered toward a certain audience, and while it drives those in, it might make some people feel excluded since they might not want to play those games. Especially with fighting games, if you have no experience, you might feel intimidated to play against other people.
Post #10 · Posted at 2008-11-24 11:28:04am 16.6 years ago
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Quote: maxninja09
Well if not GH, i would LOVE to see Street Fighter IV to the arcades...sadly, they stated that there will be no AC for SFIV, strictly CS =(
Case in point, Fighting games are a must. Another arcade genre i would prefer would have to be racing. I have been playing Maximum Tune 3 at my local Gameworks and it is pretty cool. i play using manual (don't play with automatic because you won't really "feel" the experience with automatic). Shooting games are also good too, we need more good shooting games (i love Ghost Recon Squad.)
And if not that, then some new style of arcade, kinda like that one arcade machine where you go in it and the whole thing spins around (It was this defend your base type machine where you "sat" on a turret and you controlled it...that was fun).
What? I have SF4 at my arcade.Case in point, Fighting games are a must. Another arcade genre i would prefer would have to be racing. I have been playing Maximum Tune 3 at my local Gameworks and it is pretty cool. i play using manual (don't play with automatic because you won't really "feel" the experience with automatic). Shooting games are also good too, we need more good shooting games (i love Ghost Recon Squad.)
And if not that, then some new style of arcade, kinda like that one arcade machine where you go in it and the whole thing spins around (It was this defend your base type machine where you "sat" on a turret and you controlled it...that was fun
).Post #11 · Posted at 2008-11-24 11:40:40am 16.6 years ago
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Quote: maxninja09
Well if not GH, i would LOVE to see Street Fighter IV to the arcades...sadly, they stated that there will be no AC for SFIV, strictly CS =(
Case in point, Fighting games are a must. Another arcade genre i would prefer would have to be racing. I have been playing Maximum Tune 3 at my local Gameworks and it is pretty cool. i play using manual (don't play with automatic because you won't really "feel" the experience with automatic). Shooting games are also good too, we need more good shooting games (i love Ghost Recon Squad.)
And if not that, then some new style of arcade, kinda like that one arcade machine where you go in it and the whole thing spins around (It was this defend your base type machine where you "sat" on a turret and you controlled it...that was fun).
There's FOUR SF4 cabinets linked in pairs at my local arcade. There's also a pair Initial D Arcade Stage 4 machines. Oh, and Tekken 6, two Marvel vs. Capcom 2's, and Time Crisis 4. Added to the mix are an EXTREME, a SuperNOVA, and an ITG r21. Case in point, Fighting games are a must. Another arcade genre i would prefer would have to be racing. I have been playing Maximum Tune 3 at my local Gameworks and it is pretty cool. i play using manual (don't play with automatic because you won't really "feel" the experience with automatic). Shooting games are also good too, we need more good shooting games (i love Ghost Recon Squad.)
And if not that, then some new style of arcade, kinda like that one arcade machine where you go in it and the whole thing spins around (It was this defend your base type machine where you "sat" on a turret and you controlled it...that was fun
).Post #12 · Posted at 2008-11-25 11:34:41am 16.6 years ago
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Quote: whitefox284
There's so much to talk about with this topic I'm trying to think what I could add.
Let me link this article since it covers a lot of points - State of the U.S. Arcade Industry
Let me link this article since it covers a lot of points - State of the U.S. Arcade Industry
I'd hug you if I could; this link is fantastic.
One point in that article that was brought up is the appeal in Japan versus the US. I'm reminded of the whole DDR Extreme fiasco where piracy was rampant and such. Does anyone think piracy is an issue, or home consoles the main killer? I know there's that-website-we-don't-talk-about (rhymes with Bemani woes), but I don't know how bad it's permeated dealers and distributors. I know about 4 years ago at TGA, we got a Drummania 9, and had to get refunded because it turns out it was a pirate board that was sold to us.
Quote: maxninja09
Well if not GH, i would LOVE to see Street Fighter IV to the arcades...sadly, they stated that there will be no AC for SFIV, strictly CS =(
Um... we have 4 first-party cabs. And there are tons of unofficial cabs across the States. I fail to see what you're talking about. *ponders* Then again, this could be a decent example of why US arcades are slowly fading out... Interesting, eh?
Edit 11/24: Bump for notice to see if there is anyone else who wants to input anything. If not, I'll leave the thread alone after this.
Post #13 · Posted at 2008-11-25 11:53:39am 16.6 years ago
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Quote: maxninja09
they stated that there will be no AC for SFIV, strictly CS =(
[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/M4Wv60_FIl8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M4Wv60_FIl8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
Post #14 · Posted at 2008-11-25 12:00:01pm 16.6 years ago
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Quote: Shinji16
Um... we have 4 first-party cabs. And there are tons of unofficial cabs across the States.
I wonder how do the first-party cabinets look like. The ones at my arcade are all (likely) unofficial units.Post #15 · Posted at 2008-11-25 12:02:59pm 16.6 years ago
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I can see arcades doing well. However the CS games are a major issue. People only hear about THOSE games, never arcade games. I mean DDR and ITG were a great title to have, they bring in a ton of cash. But at the same time you have to try to get the console lovers attention as well. You cant use media really, people just need to get out to arcades, and that a bog problem as well.
The lack of CS like arcade games, and Arcade game like CS games is also an issue. I mean konami tried with beatmania... But it just never got players attention, even though the arcade game was never left alone, and the line to play was about 2 hours long when it first arrived. They need to bring the media to them and say "hey, were like guitar hero, but with 7 keys, and a truntable, plus awesome looking cabinet, sliders, and other effects. Not to mention you can practice at home with the console versions, and the arcade like controller".
Thats exactly whats going to happen with guitar hero, and thats why I am hoping it will start to liven arcades up.
People also want to win something physical in the end, thats why ticket games make so much revenue right now. Especially for the kiddies.
to bring this all into perspective, you need to release an arcade game, that also appeals to CS players, its that simple. The media also has to pick up on it also.
Also is it just me, or does UBeat seem like its going to do fantastic in the states? Because for once, all of my friends want to try playing that game.
The lack of CS like arcade games, and Arcade game like CS games is also an issue. I mean konami tried with beatmania... But it just never got players attention, even though the arcade game was never left alone, and the line to play was about 2 hours long when it first arrived. They need to bring the media to them and say "hey, were like guitar hero, but with 7 keys, and a truntable, plus awesome looking cabinet, sliders, and other effects. Not to mention you can practice at home with the console versions, and the arcade like controller".
Thats exactly whats going to happen with guitar hero, and thats why I am hoping it will start to liven arcades up.
People also want to win something physical in the end, thats why ticket games make so much revenue right now. Especially for the kiddies.
to bring this all into perspective, you need to release an arcade game, that also appeals to CS players, its that simple. The media also has to pick up on it also.
Also is it just me, or does UBeat seem like its going to do fantastic in the states? Because for once, all of my friends want to try playing that game.
Post #16 · Posted at 2008-11-25 12:12:54pm 16.6 years ago
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Uhh...
American arcades have a huge disadvantage, because they are so separated from each other. The US has such a larger area to cover and to have arcades conveniently located for everyone would be insane. The inconvenience of distance is what is hindering arcades in the US. The reason arcades are so popular in Japan is because everyone practically lives on top of each other in a very small area, so it's much easier for people to get to the arcades. The density of people around an arcade is so much different than what it is in the US.
tl;dr US big, Japan small.
American arcades have a huge disadvantage, because they are so separated from each other. The US has such a larger area to cover and to have arcades conveniently located for everyone would be insane. The inconvenience of distance is what is hindering arcades in the US. The reason arcades are so popular in Japan is because everyone practically lives on top of each other in a very small area, so it's much easier for people to get to the arcades. The density of people around an arcade is so much different than what it is in the US.
tl;dr US big, Japan small.
Post #17 · Posted at 2008-11-25 01:10:13pm 16.6 years ago
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Ugh. Every time I go to an arcade now, people are like: "Why doesn't that game give tickets? It's probably a waste of money." It seriously annoys me to no end. I do agree with CS versions of games making people not go to arcades, but I guess it's because not that many game producers make games aimed at the US market. If you ask me, some people could make a killing off of popular American games by making an arcade version (Halo light shooters lol) and getting people to play it (hell, I'd play Halo if it was in an arcade 
). Arcade cabinet producers just need to see what's popular on consoles and work from there. I can see it working for Guitar Hero anywho.
I also don't think it's a matter of how convenient it is to get to an arcade, but how good an arcade is. Hell, if there was a nice arcade 45 minutes away from me, I'd be going there every week. But alas, the plethora of crappy ticket arcades outnumbers the arcades made purely for gaming.
). Arcade cabinet producers just need to see what's popular on consoles and work from there. I can see it working for Guitar Hero anywho.I also don't think it's a matter of how convenient it is to get to an arcade, but how good an arcade is. Hell, if there was a nice arcade 45 minutes away from me, I'd be going there every week. But alas, the plethora of crappy ticket arcades outnumbers the arcades made purely for gaming.
Post #18 · Posted at 2008-11-25 05:16:03pm 16.6 years ago
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Quote: Bolt-Edge
Uhh...
American arcades have a huge disadvantage, because they are so separated from each other. The US has such a larger area to cover and to have arcades conveniently located for everyone would be insane. The inconvenience of distance is what is hindering arcades in the US. The reason arcades are so popular in Japan is because everyone practically lives on top of each other in a very small area, so it's much easier for people to get to the arcades. The density of people around an arcade is so much different than what it is in the US.
tl;dr US big, Japan small.
On the flipside, the UK is small, yet there's only about three actual arcades that aren't seaside ones. That said, every bowling alley has an arcade (and there are MANY bowling alleys), but they're all filled with the same stuff: there's always a DDR machine (EM2, Fusion or SN), always a House of the Dead machine, and always a Time Crisis machine.American arcades have a huge disadvantage, because they are so separated from each other. The US has such a larger area to cover and to have arcades conveniently located for everyone would be insane. The inconvenience of distance is what is hindering arcades in the US. The reason arcades are so popular in Japan is because everyone practically lives on top of each other in a very small area, so it's much easier for people to get to the arcades. The density of people around an arcade is so much different than what it is in the US.
tl;dr US big, Japan small.
Post #19 · Posted at 2008-11-25 07:40:48pm 16.6 years ago
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One thing that I don't think that anyone has mentioned yet is how hard it is to just simply have an arcade. With home consoles, no one really wants to go pay more to play what may essentially be the same game any more, even though there can be major differences. But the thing that definitely seems to be helping is adding on something simple like mini golf, laser tag, bowling lanes, etc. All the nearby major arcades (Brunswick Zone, Grand Slam, Gameworks, etc.) seem to be doing it right. I bet that if more arcades try to do something like this, they would probably be more successful.
Post #20 · Posted at 2008-11-26 12:10:48am 16.6 years ago
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As long as the arcade want to hear the consumers complains..... updating their machines.... maintaining them..... and do not charge expensive price for the credit.....
I think there are big hope for arcades to revive again....
In Indonesia, arcades are many.... especially in my city (Jakarta)....
arcades only appear mostly in a Mall.....
there are a lot of SN and SN2 machines....
but most of them has a hard pad..... and few are maintained well.....
arcade business surely hard.....
I think there are big hope for arcades to revive again....
In Indonesia, arcades are many.... especially in my city (Jakarta)....
arcades only appear mostly in a Mall.....
there are a lot of SN and SN2 machines....
but most of them has a hard pad..... and few are maintained well.....
arcade business surely hard.....
