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Post #1 · Posted at 2021-01-11 01:46:19pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline AaronRoberts
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Where does everybody stand on taking artwork, audio, or an entire file to use for their own simfile?

There was a discussion on Discord last night and this morning regarding people taking banners and backgrounds from others simfiles. One shared a simfile from the database in which his artwork had been taken from his own simfile, and then I shared one in which somebody had re-uploaded somebody elses file, using my banner and background for that song (unsure how they got it) there was a mention of someone else doing this in a few ZIv contests in the past too.

I feel like we've all been to google and deviant art, searching for that image relevant to the simfile we're "creating" though, if someone has just put some fancy text on an image, or filtered an image and created a fun pattern, I think we still need to be giving credit, or at least asking permission if we can use those, at least within this community, not just with artwork, but audio and .sm's too, some people can spend hours creating a cut of a song, mixing it so it sounds better, editing it so the syncing is perfect, or if the audio has irregular bpms (i.e saints go marching) people put a lot of effort in making files, and it can leave people feeling pretty shit seeing their stuff being taken.

Speaking personally, I'd be a bit more bothered if someone used something that I had created in the past 4/5 years as a lot of it has been made from scratch, the stuff in my signature for example, KL I redrew for a HD version, 9PM is from scratch using photo's I took, though the atb logo is official, and IOS is from scratch but the nc logo is based on Titiln's MAX 3 stuff.

Curious what others think regarding all this.
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Post #2 · Posted at 2021-01-11 02:28:53pm 1.2 weeks ago

Online CLOUDIO
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Personally as long the credit fall into the right subject, I don't really mind. But it'd be better if they came and ask for permission.

And I'd be furious if they outright claimed it's their work when it's clearly my work. But as furious as I am, I didn't really want to stir some conflict with them publicly so I'd rather settle stuff privately if possible.
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Post #3 · Posted at 2021-01-11 02:41:38pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline Quickman
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I feel like it's a pretty grey area when it comes to this kind of stuff. The few times I have made attempts at decent simfiles, the graphics usually were made from images on Google and not properly credited. I think my best-performing simfile in a contest either had uncredited graphics or none at all... Audio becomes even harder because, really, only the person who actually made the song has the right to get mad when it's used for other purposes. People who make good cuts of the song unfortunately don't really have any leg to stand on.

I hope this thread fills up, because this is actually a really interesting topic.
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Post #4 · Posted at 2021-01-11 04:27:12pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline AaronRoberts
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Quote: Quickman
Audio becomes even harder because, really, only the person who actually made the song has the right to get mad when it's used for other purposes..

Totally, I think contacting somebody like Lene Nystrøm and asking if it's alright to use Barbie Girl in a simfile would be a difficult conversation, be ignored, or some sort of confusion on thinking Stepmania is official DDR and making a profit haha. I remember back in old msn days when JAKAZiD use to send through some audio, I'd always ask him if he was Ok with me making a stepchart before cutting and doing so. A quick PM or credit would go down well for anyone.
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Post #5 · Posted at 2021-01-11 05:20:17pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline finalfan2cwiz
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I feel like credit needs to be given regardless. I have yet to create a sim file that has been 100% done by me. You should also ask for permission when able. Obviously we won’t be asking Konami for permission for these things but if someone creates an original song, artwork, etc. you need to ask.

Post #6 · Posted at 2021-01-11 05:25:36pm 1.2 weeks ago

Online PenTA_
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Last updated: 2021-01-11 05:26pm
For me, if you didnt make it with your two hands, im not crediting. Things like official jackets, audio, banners, skeletons, etc.

Post #7 · Posted at 2021-01-11 05:36:17pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline Lord Toon
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I personally don't mind if anyone uses my designs...IDK if I have a say-so on this matter though. Tongue //
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Post #8 · Posted at 2021-01-11 05:55:16pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline Rock Disband
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I don't mind other people using my stuff as long as they don't claim it's theirs when asked, because that's just lying and you look silly. I'd like them to ask for permission, not so much from a PERMISSION DENIED! ROT IN HELL CRETIN standpoint, but because I'm curious about what they do with it.
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Post #9 · Posted at 2021-01-11 07:04:32pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline chewi
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Just wish people would ask first, it takes 2 seconds and the answer will usually be yes.
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Post #10 · Posted at 2021-01-11 07:13:51pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline tsugaru7reveng
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I'm gonna share the same opinion with PenTA_ here but only in the context of DDR official files.

Reusing skeletons of simfiles of songs not in DDR (other BEMANI, etc.) on the other hand is I believe frowned upon unless explicit permission is given. Doing that especially without crediting or notifying the original author will make you look lazy so if anyone wants their file to stand out more it helps to have more semblance of originality in simfiles by manually syncing the file yourself (i.e. use a different audio source) in addition to having unique charts.

And would also like to reiterate what chewi said too.

Post #11 · Posted at 2021-01-11 07:35:43pm 1.2 weeks ago

Offline AnonyWolf
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Quote: PenTA_
For me, if you didnt make it with your two hands, im not crediting. Things like official jackets, audio, banners, skeletons, etc.
what if only one hand was used?

Post #12 · Posted at 2021-01-12 02:31:31am 1.2 weeks ago

Offline DMAxel
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I have to echo what other people have said: I'm fine with other people using graphics that I've done as long as they credit me.

Stealing charts in the other hand is a big no.

Post #13 · Posted at 2021-01-12 05:27:07am 1.1 weeks ago

Offline silenttype01
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In regards to the files that make a simfile:

1. Always ask for permission.
2. Always credit/cite your sources if known.

In regards to the stepcharts:

Concepts to writing a stepchart are bound to be repeated, making it hard to argue whether someone stole a pattern or was inspired to make a similar pattern. For example, I will feel indifferent if someone copies my ending pattern to exotic ethnic as it is stepping to the djembe, with the djembe slaps being stepped exclusively on the up arrow.

Fortunately, the rhythm community is small enough to catch when a user is attempting to pass others work as their own. That usually ends with the plagiarizer being exposed/shamed from doing it again.

Passing off others work as your own can only generate so much clout within the community.

Post #14 · Posted at 2021-01-12 04:50:51pm 1.1 weeks ago

Offline Czery
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Quote: AaronRoberts
Where does everybody stand on taking artwork, audio, or an entire file to use for their own simfile?

I'll bring up the elephant in the room and discuss what your issues you mention dance around: copyright, derivative works and attribution. (not the same issue but usually treated as one)

Just from a legal perspective, simfiles pretty much count as creative works and fall under copyright protection. That being said, technically, you *could* sue someone for redistribution, modification or any credit issues, not that I know of any case. It could be argued that by uploading and sharing your content you are putting your content up for Public Domain, but in the US, copyright automatically applies to any original works.

Most of the early SM3.9 songs were distributed under a permissive Creative Contents license and you can even find the corresponding text files with the specific license that expressively permits redistribution and requires attribution or forbids modification, etc.

If producing simfiles ever develops into a commercial, competitive job market (e.g. , these issues would probably be resolved in the same way that graphic artists or video game assets have to deal with now, which is through legal contracts between a creator and everyone else.

IMO feelings here (i.e. people's opinions on what should be the standard), don't really matter given how inconsistent the application of proper crediting is and the grey-area of simfile artists to begin with.

Post #15 · Posted at 2021-01-14 08:32:09pm 5.7 days ago

Offline coolmencolmen
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Well, this is a really big topic and i will try to tell you what i think about it. (Sorry my english is not perfect since im a French)

So,

The debate of the ''sharing'' stuff is a pretty big one and very personnal.
My opinion can be the opposite of a lot of people.

I stepmake since 2011. (I was pretty young in this time and i have done some very old post on the zenius forum that are not very good x) )

Some of my work was mixed with other pack (mostly my hard file like 500BPM) that are really NOT well done. (Doesn't follow my recent ''charting'')

Personnaly, i doesn't really care. Because i only do ''Stepping'' for fun/past-time and nothing more than that.

After that, the ''copyright'' and the ''credit'' part are really tought.

First of all: Osu! never as credit all his song included the artwork.
Secondly: It's the same for the Stepmania ''Sphere''. A lot of person just dont care about it because the most of the time ''It's a one shot pack''. That's means that they will never continue or modificate it.
And for the picture, we still have the ''google image'' search that are pretty accurate.
Thirdly: Almost -nobody- try to link ''Music Artist'' work. (Osu! dont do that. If I'm not mistaken)
It's sure that some music artist doesn't care or has already accept it. And that's correct.

Personnaly, i put:
- The link to buy the music of the artist
- The link of his website.
- For the picture, they can be found with Google Image.
- For the Step (It's my own Charting)
- And i offer the ''MP3 version'' of the .WAV format that i have. (To at least avoid to give the ''maximum'' quality for free.)

Because, i think people tend to forget that it's illegal to give music for free. And that's a pretty big topic.
It's pretty much ''tolerate'' to share a music for a rhythm game. (Because Osu! are still there even if they have a very large library of HIGHLY copyrighted music). And they still running.

And i doesn't get any issues since 2011 about that. (maybe because im not popular)

And that's it.

In the end. We can't do anything against people that share or modificate your Step.
Since it's the same thing as the Warez.
More you will try to stop someone. More they will try to do what you don't want.
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Post #16 · Posted at 2021-01-15 11:46:25am 5.1 days ago

Offline AaronRoberts
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Quote: DMAxel
I have to echo what other people have said: I'm fine with other people using graphics that I've done as long as they credit me.

Same, This is what I'd like.
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