Z-I-v Summer Contest 2020

anyone else in this thread smoke weed

you know what's fucked up? several users get falsely accused of rigging votes, but some users flat out refuse to play all the files in a given week/group because they "don't like the song" and that doesn't even get a slap on the wrist

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im literally eating an edible and have a bowl ready for later, fuck y e s

Serious opinion time:
I do recognize that people have tastes, and certain people may fulfill that taste more often. In my experience though, in any given week, there were more than 10 good charts in the group.

Considering we have had 40ish people for 5 weeks (upon recording that statistic, I assume)... voting for a total of 20 people isn't far-fetched, but voting for a total of 15 or 10 people is toeing the line towards suspicion.

It's kind of a failing of the voting system. Letting voters put upwards of 5 votes on a song allows them to vote for 3 charts minimum. Lowering the max votes you can put on a song to 3 would work towards diversifying votes. In the last few weeks especially, I found myself rating most of these charts an 8/10 or above. I would wholeheartedly support a star rating system where stepcharts are individually rated in a standard n-point scale, but everyone must give a star rating for every song in their group.

That being said, it is also my observation that Z-I-v's community is showing signs of generational warfare, one that the older generation is starting to lose. In my opinion, the type of charting meta that the accused is used to is outmoded, if not completely obsolete in 2020. Diversifying tastes and updating the ideal charting meta is important to remain neutral in a style-agnostic contest like this; otherwise this пиздец happens.

Funny image time:
trying to make a stepchart that everybody likes

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So now alongside with not being allowed to like these types of files, my files are obsolete because you don't like them!



What on EARTH is going on here.

i don't do drugs except tylenol, wellbutrin, pristiq, caffeine, infliximab, and the occasional hard cider

Anyway Haley, this has nothing to do with a war, it has everything to do with polarity of simfile tastes. People vote for simfiles they like. It's not like one *has* to win out over the other, that's just a really dumb take.

People have a certain style of stepping that comes out in no matter what song they step or what type of restrictions there are. You should expect that if someone likes one thing from someone else, they will like other things from that person as well.

This is a silly way to add to the stress of having your theme idea be shat on by everyone.

In response to this controversy, I think it would be important to explain my role and the reasoning VanEden and i had to lead to this decision:
- This issue began with a PM I received suspecting collusion between tamtamino and chewi. They requested to have the two split in future split-week rounds. The PM led me to bring the issue up privately with VanEden, prompting him to perform the vote "audit."
- As part of this discussion, VanEden brought up a few other anecdotes (e.g. behavior and past drama on the thread; voting patterns). The evidence was circumstantial, and plausibly explained by other factors, so I was against taking action until any further evidence (e.g. chat logs) were found. To get a second opinion, I talked to two ZIv users (one being a long-time contest participant, and the other a long-time forum user) about the issue. Both of them agreed that there was reasonable suspicion of collusion, leading me to agree as a compromise with VanEden to issue the warnings.
- As I was the one who brought up the issue to VanEden, this was in no way an action he took because "he wasn't doing well" or anything of the sort. Please do not attack him or accuse him of this.
- This is not an attack on any of you entrants' character or stepping style, and I want to make this clear. Voting bias is something that VanEden has been particularly wary about, as seen by his stance on posting feedback prematurely earlier in the thread.
- I should have been more reasonable throughout this ordeal, and much of my stance was built with opinions and uncertainties. This is a major lapse in my judgment. I sincerely apologize for this.

VanEden is currently compiling the votes for Week 5, so please sit tight!

Going back to the voting bias argument: it's fair to look at these numbers and think "oh, there must be collusion going on" - IF everyone had an equal chance at getting votes from everybody.

But that's not the world where we live. Each community has their own steppers and artists, etc. ZIv has always been more favorable of DDR-esque aesthetics and charts than other sites, and it makes sense that some artists are much more likely to give those charts more votes than others.

If you [not specifically addressing you, tak or dan, but anyone] take the time to acknowledge this, there's absolutely no real evidence to suggest any sort of "collusion." And if we look at bias, well, of course there's going to be bias. People are going to vote for files they enjoy more, and certain users are sometimes more likely to create those files. They're voting for the files they enjoy, that just happen to be more frequently created by certain users. That's why it looks like collusion is going on, when there really isn't any evidence other than "the numbers look off".

The disrespect that the contest leaders have been met with for dealing with this hard & controversial situation is mind-boggling. Really says a lot about certain people.

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Honestly if we take bias towards certain stepping styles as "collusion", where does the line get drawn? Is my opinion that harder charts are more difficult to do well and therefore deserve more points collusion? Is having a bias towards rock music collusion? I don't get it.

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You know what, this thread's already a disaster so I might as well bring it to the table.

https://t.co/Dfk9N1ahuE

This is Haley's voting sheet. Something that for some reason, she hasn't posted publicly except for the week 1 votes in a separate .docx. Some things of note in Week 2:



I don't know about Rave ‘til the Earth’s End but you could've at least gave feedback. And then of course, after school NAVIGATORS? You didn't finish the file just because of the song? Why? You're supposed to judge everyone fairly.

This is relevant (don't judge Nezemarth, he hasn't made the same mistake since):


And since then, ddrstepper established a new rule in Summer Contest 2016:


And yet, this rule has not carried over to this contest. I think if you really care about people voting fairly, this rule should be firmly planted. Haley hasn't even received a warning for not playing/finishing those two files.

Bias isn't collusion! That's the issue here. People are talking about issues with bias when there really is no issue with having a bias in simfile competitions. If you think there's a problem with that, then you're taking away the whole point of the contest.

The problems come in when your bias is toward the user, not the chart or style of the chart or simfile, etc. If you're more predisposed to enjoy a certain style of chart than another, that's bias, and you're more than welcome to vote for it when you delegate your points.

I've actually gone out of my way to vote for files that weren't my style specifically so my votes could be more diversified between old DDR-style charts and new-er DDR/ITG-style charts, so I'm just as confused as you are.

I'm absolutely scared to submit my votes for next week because of the possibility that the mods will see them as 'wrong'.

There is no situation. You don't have any facts. You don't even have convincing circumstantial evidence. You have nothing. You want to apply selective psuedo-scientific analysis to a question of taste.

In response, DVE and tak have selectively highlighted our votes without any context or accounting for artistic similarity or taste.

If you want to get "no emotions just facts" then we can do that. Here's a fact: none of this would hold up in any court anywhere in the western world.

Fuck off with that.

i just want a fountain soda and for someone to suck my cock

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Is voting for each other every round (3+ points only, truthfully) enough to account for collusion? YES or NO?



--- THIS POST IS NOT MEANT AS AN ACCUSATION ---

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No. Don't act like it is, lol.

I'm the first to point out unfairness, but this isn't it. They just step very similarly, and it's pretty evident when you play their files that they'll enjoy each others' content a lot.

If they had radically different styles and whatnot, then maybe it'd be evidence, but their styles are so similar that it doesn't mean anything other than they have a bias toward that style of simfile.