Guitar Hero (AC) (International)

Well, that just got me thinking.

See, when you play Guitar Hero and Rock Band, there is no timing grade scale. You don't get PERFECT and MARVELOUS or GREAT and GOOD depending on your timing. It's mostly reliant on getting and keeping combos. So you can scrunch up three or four notes together, but so long as the sequence is played in order within the boundaries, it counts as a perfect hit and the song gets played WITHOUT timing discrepancy.

With Guitar Freaks and Drum Mania, there's a level of precision involved. If you get it too far off you miss it completely and it hurts a lot more.

So basically:
The majority of Americans=Noobs who can't stand playing a game that accuses them of not being good at something
Everybody else=13375, MATURE adults, and people who just don't care.

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nah, it's fine, as long as were not taking about Super Bowl 40...something XP

GH to me became popular of song choices + how wide and popular the songs are, i mean, classic rock songs (like Jimi Hendrix, Ozzy Osbourne, AC/DC, etc.) have been around for many years not just in the states but also all over the world...

..it sorta makes sense when people would rather play something that they are familiar with than something that is new to them, to me, i like both. I like the classic hits, but at the same time, i also like to try something new every now and then =)

I can say GH is a fun game to play because you are not only listening to your "favorite" song, but you "rock" out to that song with a plastic guitar...and here's another odd-type question: Have you ever had those moments where you hear a song and you get the air guitar and just rock out? This was GH basis, this is pretty much how they got so many people hooked to this game. Not just because of that thought, but also for it's gameplay as well.

I would want to see the AC of this just to see the response to the community (from normal people to the hardcore GH players) and see how they would respond to an AC of GH...although at the same time i would think that if the AC has the same exact songs from GH3, then some of the hardcore players would avoid it most likely because they OWN GH3 + DLC songs...as for the normal people, it really depends...

Three things i would love to see from this AC:
1. Songs that are NOT in the console games.
2. Online ranking (is possible with the internet "cash prizes" that it was said to have).
3. a possibility of KONAMI putting songs from THEIR collection to the AC...(but everyone knows even THAT is impossible.)

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This is what I have to say on casual gaming. I agree with the above two quotes.

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I would go suicide bomber (just kidding) on Konami if they shared their music.

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what? try visions, all that remains pack, metallica pack, green grass and high tides, electric eye, painkiller, or something else thats actually hard. oh, and ATLEAST gold star them, no one gives a flying fuck about a pass.

ignore the ratings, harmonix has NO FUCKING CLUE how to tier their difficulties. as for ratings, its empty is 1, 1 is 2, 2 is 3, 3 is 4, 4 is 5, 5 is 6, and red is 7("IMPOSSIBLE SONGS")

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Don't forget the thrasher pack

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I just finished reading that mega long article entitled Birdmen and the Casual Fallacy....and ugh...thanks for the link.

disclaimer: sorry my thoughts are messy as I got fired today and well... thanks for reading to those who manage it.

(take it as example and think)
back to GH.
DLC packs are erm "difficult" in terms of being much more difficult to gold star than the songs from the original GHs. I was asked to play songs from DLCs on Expert and I did not want to as I feared that I would fail. I did not but I found the note charts and difficulty far more suitable for the track. But most people in my country would consider this suicide. but erm that's not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say is that GH1 came out (I don't even have a slightest idea how it was but let's say it was). People started to play, found out that's pretty easy in its basis. you play few notes, miss half but still can go on and you listen to the very same not completely messed up sound track (or two well in this case). GH2 came, GH1 players advanced to higher difficulties, new people started to play but not on expert but started slowly from easy (or whatever) to expert. with GH3 MANY players were on the expert gold star level and needed more. but MANY^2 actually started to play the game. so? there are DLCs for "hardcore GH" players and the less experienced players usually go by not that much as they need to progress somehow and usually don't want too many new things (at least from what I've seen not so experienced players in whatever music game tend to be playing a certain amount of songs all the time over and over....are afraid of new stuff generally). anyway they can download the new stuff as well too.
<you can probably skip this> (I think if you played GHWT there is a major change in something. This is the game that does not really have the difficulty scale. (it does....for example byob (don't try this as first song) vs living on prayer (99 first try?)) it's more about the feeling of playing the guitar....it simulates it more than RB or previous GHs. don't kill me for this but objectively LOOK at the note charts and listen. (this is subjective but I'm trying to show something...)
RB is a bit different. it more focuses on the fun and feel of being able to achieve something aspect of the game. it's more "stable" and compact as a game unlike GHWT. ) </end>
What I wanted to say is back to the first loong paragraph is that the players progress in the game. those who started to play with GH1 are most likely be able to pass/gold star everything in GHWT. those who started with GH3 don't need to. GH is targeting casual gamers (I will stick to this term) but makes them hardcore or more skilled players. so if they encounter let's say GFDM they will probably do way better in it than someone who has never seen a music game in his life. The game itself has to evolve or the people will stop liking the game or will continue in "development" and with that I mean IIDX notecharts in GH. I find this outrageous but I can understand it. (same would go to the neversoft note charts for fur elise, bee, turkey march etc...that's nothing for a guitar even though some guitar versions might sound really cool....) ITG anyone? DDR Edits anyone?

<probably could work as a summary...but um>
...um GH is about 2 things...and touches two different groups and they kind of mix

- gold star and get highest possible score which you can get only by choosing the ideal way of star power. (just check out score hero)
- have fun/feel like a rock star/relax whatever the reason for other players....these players can choose a different game later or become the HC players of GH
</end>

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ad AC.
I would expect shortened and "long" (original length)songs
I would expect new songs or a mix from (almost) all the games
I don't WANT any konami originals on that machine...please...no....

Apparently World Tour has a feature where you can just strum and screw off without failing. According to BestBuy so that you can "be the Rockstar you really are."

Umm... lame?

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the no fail cheat, that DQs scores from leader boards(not that anyone who fails would even place on them, but still) and disables saving, has been in GH since GH1, and is also in RB2, do some research.

anyway, lets settle this. RB2 and GHWT are so easy to you, right? i doubt you could beat the best scores, so beat mine. this is 10k behind the #1 score, so you have some room. FC with higher score, because you're so good at this easy game and can pass songs.

http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/N00b_Saib0t/?action=view&current=IMG00849.jpg

edit-cant get the image to work. its 362,998, 100%, FC on hotel california on GHWT. oh, and FYI you can 100% with over strums, so even if you 100% it its easy to tell if you FCed or not because of your note streak.

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Fixed it for ya n00b!

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how the hell did you do that?

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you're linking to your album, not the image itself. What you do is right click on the image itself, view the image, and snag the url.

That's when you use [img]

For the one you have on your post, you use [url=]

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i see. the first time i just grabbed the script it gives you to post a picture(like i would for myspace) but it didnt work so i just used the link to the image.

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argh. whatever no need to proof that the game is easy by beating your score. don't you get it? easy learning curve and hit/miss system. difficult to fail etc.
ok you are right it's the score that differs but I think (I don't know that but) that most bemani players won't actually care much about getting the highest score? or at least I don't. Why? It's a different concept from BEMANI games that are accurate and actually test your skill and can give you much more of a challenge. (ok GFDM seems to be the exception...but still what I look at is my perfect/great ratio) and to me these games are much more logical. (GHWT is not that bad in my point of view though)

I personally played Hotel California few times (like three times in my whole life up to now), got 98% on completely offsync setup and my score was far inferior to yours (max 300k). But who cares? I know that for the GH elitists this does not even count as a good score. And why not? Because it's easy to get 99s on such songs?

And one thing...I've seen people who just decided to be good at GH and well they managed to get to the gold starred scores in pretty short time like two months time for a complete noob. But I haven't seen this in the case of GFDM. (but that's probably also because I know far more GH players than GF ones). I'm sure if I would manage to play GH on TV that does not lag I could pull off 100% as I already managed that at tourney. (and I'm not a good GH player NOR GF player)

I don't say that GH players can't be good at GF when they first play the game but it's more likely that GF players will do "better" in GH (with that I mean a average GF player can get far better percentage and score if he knows how to use starpower than average GH player playing GF, see?). The thing is that GH base is much wider than GF one and (at least in Europe) and many of the people playing GH are playing offsync and their rhythm isn't steady. I'm noticing this when I see people play DDR here, when they play GH or any other game. when they try IIDX they get nice straight Fs and Es. Such person will probably do "badly" in GF. but of course he will know the system, will know that when this note comes here he is supposed to press this key and hit it in some kind of timing window he got used to and he's got probably the reflexes and speed. So there are people who will pass difficult stuff in GF (it won't ever be me). even though as far as I know many people (GH players) just say GF is crap and will walk away because it is easy etc. But if they would try, they would realize that it does not really need to be THAT easy as they thought. (for me GFDM is hard as hell...).

Still the concept is different so...crap well it's like ITG and DDR concepts.

you're not parading around the thread acting like you're hot shit for passing songs on RB and GH, so it wasnt really directed to you. like i said, i posted my hotel california score because its an easy song, so if the game is as easy as he says he should be able to top that score with his minimal knowledge of the game. i also directed him to songs that are actually hard, but he keeps ignoring that, because somehow he thinks the rating of almost easy in GF has anything to do with RB(or GH3, where the song is DLC), clearly ignoring the charting layout and the fact that the GF version is cut for length(and if its anything like the paranoid cover in GF, the solo is cut removing virtually all difficulty from the song, so how can you compare it?).

yes, timing is essential in all BEMANI games, but you cant ignore proper SP/OD usage either. i didnt know the right path for hotel california and my score fell 10k lower than the top score. i'm not belittling anyone for getting a lower score than me either, including you. i'm simply calling him out. if the game is so easy, he should be able to beat the score i posted. anyway, SP/OD paths make as much difference in a score as a few marvelous. you would be surprised how many times someone sets a score thinking they were 100% "optimal" in SP usage only to have it beaten a few weeks later by 100 points, an extra tick or better squeezing making the difference.

http://www.scorehero.com/rankings.php?group=4&game=0&diff=4&song=1240&page=1&highlight=1

look at the ratings for one expert, the 15th place score is a 99%, the few scores above it are 98s and 97s. knowing how to use SP properly makes all the difference, and is actually a skill(unfortunately one i dont have). GH isnt just about hitting notes(atleast not if you want a good score) just like GF isnt(again, not if you want a good score), and if the 15th place guy would have used better SP he would have had a higher score just like the guy with the higher combo can have a lower score in BEMANI games because of poor accuracy.

i'm not trying to say one game is superior to the other, i'm just saying that if he wants to show just how easy these games are, he should boast about more than passing a song and actually get some scores.

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n00b_saib0t: you are right....

I should have stated that people actually taking part in any kind of discussion like this should know both (all three) games to the extent that they can actually judge. and in this case I find playing on expert a must. it's because GH played on easier difficulties just does not feel right. there are so many notes missing or patterns that are off that it just seems weird and my brain can't go with it. it's my personal opinion ...I would kind of delete all the other difficulties. but instead find song where guitar is not much present for "easier" difficulties if you get what I mean...I'm not good at making points, heh.

<the not important stuff...>you are right in SP/OD. this is something I had to go through to qualify for the national tournament. I played without it and even getting it working was not an easy task for me. (it reacts differently from GF where I'm fine with um...moving the guitar to get the wailing bonus). but finding out the good path for me is a mystery. of course it seems that where there is more notes (HOPO parts) you should get more points and such and (not sure if chords get you ore points) chords are there as well. maybe even other stuff gets you more points. But even when I tried getting 100% with and without the said ideal SP chart the difference wasn't great in score. but still I have the impression that no one knows the maximum score attainable which might be why people are trying so hard and are trying to come up with an ideal way. . (I'm noob in this, don't care much about it but I know the importance as that's what I was swearing about when entering the national tournament)</end>

I figured this might have been more obvious @ ststung.

I'm just explaining for myself as I think, but Guitar Freaks runs on a combo system. If you've ever played a Battle match against a CPU, you'll notice that even if you're both getting perfect, if you have a higher combo you get more points. Guitar Hero is the same in the sense that, with the combo modifiers, the maximum attainable score can always be attained by not missing a note. And this is guaranteed to get you 5 stars in Rock Band on any song (not missing a single note).

The real wild card is star power, which presents an added risk vs. reward factor. For most players, singing while playing guitar is impossible, and swinging it to the side or reaching for the select button is still quite difficult. The risk is that, in the process of activating star power in the middle of a section that has a lot of notes, you mess up your combo and have to start building up again. But if you time it in the right section at the right time (which means you must already know which section has the most notes that you as a player are capable of hitting), star power can give you the most benefit. Even moreso, if you're able to get an 8x combo mod in a shred section, you rack up massive points.

I just remembered, Rock Band also has solo sections in which the player can do whatever they want for more points. But the general idea is: the more you do, the better. I guess in this sense stamina is really the only limiting factor. Oh, and there are "literal solo" parts with scripted notes, outlined in blue, which give you bonuses for completing higher percentages of.

Does Rock Band's popularity meter have an effect in score generation?

I think the simple solution to the skill gap and adjustment is to permit timing changes. Make the time easier or tighter, push the threshhold forwards or backwards, you know, like you can do with Konami's rhythm games. Actually I'm quite convinced that Guitar Hero AC will for sure have adjustable timing. But they should also limit that function on online play.

I'm going to change the subject: Rock Band's online play.

It's kind of annoying how all the top ranked players just play easy songs to boost their percentages. So I think there should be regulation files. A possible consideration for RBIII. Make rules that you can decide EVERYONE playing with you has to play by. If someone doesn't play by those rules, you don't have to play with them. So you can't lose just because the other guy went Easy when you went Hard.

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you are right with the combo thing that kind of annoys me a lot. but I know that I can with my perfects be better than someone FCing the song and being really bad. we tried it on several songs to see the outcome if the player getting perfects can win the match. he can even though we did not find the factor....or well where is the thing that boosts your score that much. even though I don't really like this concept I think it is better than GH which seems to be more random in my point of view. especially if I should play this game in the arcades. In GF I can concentrate on accuracy or combo (as usually keeping combo worsens my PA) but in GH I'm more of a dumb monkey pressing the buttons and strumming. Is the combo/SP enough to drive players to play this game in the arcades?
With GH being console game you can have fun almost anywhere....you just take it with you.

But if you go to arcades to play GH? ok you will probably have a crowd watching you, you can meet other players but it won't be like "playing one song over and over getting the maximum points" I think. Or well it will cost you money and a lot of time. add in there the fact that you need to get in the arcades and pay for the songs. I'm even lazy to replay a song on my DDR machine set to freeplay (because I got a stupid great or 10 greats etc)! At home you can think more about the charts and SP. you can "train"...I was actually wondering how many people do this....I mean the training mode or whatever mode...you can play one part of the song and learn it. the people I spoke them to used this pretty much. I never touched that. But I don't even replay songs (who would have wanted to play TTFAF which is LONG as hell). this can't happen in the arcades...there should really be some shorter versions (with shorter versions I mean something even shorter than already cut in half cliffs of dover) or there should be one long version for credit.

gosh I just can't imagine GH turning to an arcade game. because its not really played like an arcade game....time consuming, people are 1having fun with others, 2. playing the most difficult stuff over and over or 3 or achieving 100% everywhere with the ideal SP chart....

I don't know I just probably don't see what people see in arcade release? I'll play GH for free, but no way paying for it. Only if there would be new songs I couldn't play elsewhere probably? or if it can offer more than CS version?

I'm just thinking aloud hope you don't have urge to kill me. if so tell me to stop...

When it comes to combo/accuracy ratios, combo will win out if you get a full combo vs. someone who gets perfects but never gets more thant 20-30 combos at once. Now, if you were getting at least a third of the song without missing and mostly perfects, of course you beat the kid fullcomboing on nothing but greats. But this is just in Guitar Freaks.

My ideas just keep changing, but I realized. If we get GH for the AC, every pro GH player who has never heard of GF will take notice. I mean, come on, "pro". SVGL gets a lot of the latest video games, and I'm sure when it comes out we'll gave GHAC too. Too many people play the konami games for SVGL to give them up, so I'm sure when people see the GF game being a lot harder (might be a little difficult to convince them without talking to them), they might even come over to our side. This benefits Activision, but it also drums up activity on the Konami end.

So, basically: If GH and GF are played close to each other, people will notice GF more.

About GH being an AC game, it's totally plausible. Take DDR. The arcade versions give you nearly all of the songs straight away, but if you get the home versions you only get THAT one mix, and you have to earn them. Guitar Hero for the arcade will be the same. They'll just unlock all of the songs right away and leave a few as bonuses if you do well enough.

The benefit of GH for the arcade can be any of the following:

1: Playing in public (i.e. showing off)
2: Playing with random people w/o an internet connection
3: Playing the game even if you don't already own it
4: Playing the game when you can't play it at home

These aren't even all of the benefits. But you get my point. It probably will offer more than the CS version, but it probably won't be as interactive either. You could bring your data with you, but you couldn't do stuff in the arcade that you CAN do on the console. I don't really know what those features would be, but doubtless they will be there.

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...*is amazed at the lengths of posts*

Anyways, even though these are some pretty good arguments, would i suggest you guys to rerail THIS discussion somewhere else? I mean, yea it's all fine and all talking about many different things about GH/RB/GF/DM, it's gameplay/interface/internet/scoring/etc., but it is sorta moving away from the main thread...

...even though NOTHING has popped up about this (no news, no test locations, no nothing ).

It would just be nice if you guys could move this somewhere else...like a "Guitar Hero vs. GuitarFreaks" thread or something like that...

Please and Thank You

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