DDR X3 VS 2ndMIX (AC) (Japan)

I think it's pretty awful on the first slowdown. (In my opinion, only) It is hard to tell the arrows' rhythm.

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This is just my opinion, but a song doesn't need to be faulty in any way to be a bad song.

I've made (and thrown out) tons of Simfiles that had good music, and technically acceptible charts, but simply weren't any fun to play. Some things just don't work, and there's no way to make them work in a way which are

A) Musically intuitive
B) Fun to play

I have the luxury of throwing those files out and starting work on a new file, because I haven't just paid an artist a huge sum of money to write a song for me. It's much harder for Konami to say "This song doesn't work. We can't make it work", because they've already commisioned it, and so a lot of songs that can't work make it through into the games.

Are we specifically talking about Trigger or Silver Dream? Silver Dream is bad in that sort of alien, intangible way. What they made isn't fun, and doesn't work. The movements required to play the song are kind of fun on low-bpm songs, but they don't work on a 200bpm song.

The BPM is gimmicky because it serves no purpose, either musically, or to create something fun/unique in terms of steps. When they wrote the music, they had no reason to add that passage of music, and it's clearly just included so that the song can incorporate a gameplay gimmick.

The slowdown bears no resemblance to the rest of the song, and so you're hitting steps that correspond to a new rhythm, with no musical point of reference for the required timing. Some of the steps around that section don't correspond to anything, except a rhythm which is introduced shortly afterwards in the song. Sometimes it's perfectly fun to tap out a rhythm that isn't audible, but only if you've already heard the rhythm before.

I prefer Silver Dream with a chart that uses 1/8th notes mostly with jumps thrown when the bass and snare are heard both. 1/16th notes can be thrown on bass rolls.

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To each their own, IMO. To me, SILVER DREAM is pretty good. Some songs are TOO hard and hardly any fun (NGO :cha. Some songs are just so hard that you have NO WAY to have fun. No offence, but maybe if you're capable of doing them, they'll turn out to be fun. Valkyrie Dimension is really hard, but I see EVERY DDR Technique known to man in that song, and it takes years (YEARS) to effictively do it. I guess it applies to NGO , but the fast step-jumps are insane.

But Tyma is jus talking about the fun factor. It's simply subjective. Depends who you ask.

I agree that the slowdown is quite weird, but the rest of the stepchart is fine. It's supposed to be a hard song.
The bpm changes are just like other boss songs. Why not complain about New Decade and Anti-matter and the Fascinations?

FELM: I LOVE JUMPS.

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Anti-Matter: I love killing my feet.

It's subjective, but there are a lot of ground rules to stepmaking, and while a lot of it is subjective and intangible, I think Silver Dream breaks some cardinal rules.

The question of "If you were to step Silver Dream, would you include or ignore a BPM change" is null and void, because they had the option to not include the passage in the song in the first place, and even now, could easily take the master track, and remove it altogether, to make the song less frustrating.

For the record, I think NGO is a really solid chart, but like Silver Dream, the patterns used are often more fun on slower songs. Musically, it's great, and it has lots of memorable moments which don't involve gimmicks (something which is extremely rare now). I'm not a great player, but I passed it on an AC the first time I played it, so it definately doesn't require any special techniques to play comfortably.

That kind of makes sense, but it's one little part, and it's fine. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Anyways, can you answer my question about Trigger- please?
What part of the stepchart is bad besides the bpm changes (which I don't have a problem with, since I've played it so many times) and the slowdown with random notes (I agree that's pretty bad, but anything else)?

I think this is a really interesting point, because from what I've seen, Konami's stopped modifying crossovers into DDR, but nearly every crossover into say, REFLEC BEAT, has been shortened mostly in the intro, though not necessarily for the purpose of making any charts less frustrating...

REFLEC BEAT's edits sometimes confuse me because they removed parts with actual beats so it's not like they're taking out parts that are "inappropriate" for the game, but then again, I haven't played it so I can't really comment on how it feels to play shortened smooooch.

Trigger 's biggest problem to me is that the stops are really poorly placed, choppy, and inconsistent, and the slowdown and ending are just artificially hard even though the song itself is not terribly intense and doesn't justify having crazy stuff at that time. The patterns also don't flow that well; it's definitely one of the easier 18s to just pass, and it's partly because there's not much to really justify the song being that hard.

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Trigger has always seemed at times very easy, then it just spazzes out of nowhere. But it has to be one of the easier 18's out there. The slowdown is off in so many unbelievable ways. I know it's an 18, but can't we just play fair sometimes??

And I still don't understand why people keep saying that HDV is off-beat while the 1/12th notes matches the beat completely. Or is it because of incorrect placements of arrows in the near middle section?

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Isn't it because Healing-D-Vision's chart didn't originally have any 12ths? Until X, it was quantized to 16ths.

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Oh, I didn't notice that. I thought the charts have had 12th since SN.

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Nah, Healing-D-Vision used 16ths instead of triplets until X. That's why it was considered broken, because it made no sense in most places (strangely, using 16ths for the jumps works because the snare is set to 16ths even though the synth is on triplets).

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I think that the difference between them is great enough that HDV on SN would be a 15 while on X it is a 14.

Especially the section with the 12th notes right after the speedup, which becomes much harder with the broken timing because the clusters are significantly faster.

I wonder how hard VANESSA would be if the 12th notes were broken the same way.

Horrible.
And I still think VANESSA deserves a chart. Either on 19 or 20.

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VANESSA is AMAZING. The only way i could accept a chart is if it was similar to it or they made a clever but reasonable chart

@TheSirius17: That would suck. Repetitive and boring. Or maybe just outright stupid. Even following the melody would only give nonstop 12ths.

New Decade and Anti-Matter's BPM gimmick is fine for me, BPM gimmick is fine as long it follows the song's intensity.
Both of their EXPERT charts are quite fun 17s too (for me). And I frickin' finally passed Anti-Matter with 4 batteries (lost 3 on the way)

I don't think VANESSA would work in any glorious way. The EXPERT is good enough already. (well, twisty ending)

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