DDR II & hottest party 5 (Wii) (International)

Well, people on a diet would buy the plain cake... *shot*
There are probably about as many people who want boring graphics as there are people who want characters. Or because the metaphor is so fun, as many people who would buy the plain cake as people who would just eat the delicious, pretty icing off the top. And then there are the people who like a slice with a bit of everything, which is probably who Konami is aiming for.

Dancing characters are lovely for marketing... otherwise, we just get more wtf mascots like Catherine. Heck, DDR does all right in America without any sort of mascot, but the box art could be so much nicer with characters instead of the generic people. Or it could be weirder. But at least you wouldn't have to pay any people to pose for it, I guess.

Kind of looking forward to the 23rd. Would rather the game just came out already so we found out everything, but a little more info would be nice.

That's because it was nothing but flashy. The graphics were obnoxious to too full of stuff, well, flashing and changing bright colors. You like... can't compare that craziness to dancers or even Extreme-era videos.
Course, the real reason it wasn't hot was because they screwed with a lot of gameplay things that could've just been left alone, but anyway...

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Actually, I think the biggest problem with DDR PS3's graphics were the lack of that DDR "cuteness" that has prevailed throughout the series. The theme was basically like an even darker version of SuperNOVA's already dark graphics but without the cute characters and bright stages to go alone with it. Even the background videos for things like CRAZY LOVE looked more like a bad acid trips than cute-sy fun.

I remember initial response from casual players was that New Moves was a great game.

But...

That didn't make it a success. Since it seems that the only way DDR can survive (at least in the states) is by continuing to appeal to the veteran players. And it did not, so it failed.

I want my cake to TASTE good regardless how it looks. New Moves is all food coloring and whipped cream.

incidentally, did the 360 version actually come out?

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It did in America. Minus DLC & YouTube support.

WTF?! They removed the literally only two things that made it passable as a DDR game.

And also without Move? I don't believe Kinect was mentioned, as they have Dance Masters for that.

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Correct, no Move or Kinect support for the 360 version.

Since when was Move available for the 360? link plz :V

I think you read it backwards. I was confirming Oni's post that because it was ported to the 360 it lost Move support but also did not gain Kinect support in its place.

Honestly, I get really skeptical when someone suggests that DDR CS games sell based on veteran response to them. HP1/HP2 sold fantastic without much support from the veteran base.

I think casuals were turned off by DDR PS3's licenses (Animal and Plastic Beach? Those weren't even singles, they're virtually unknown to the general public) and graphics/lack of DLC.

DDR Wii sold a lot better than DDR PS3, but only because the Wii series has a strong following after the first three games. It still sold less than the other HP games though.

The strength of console DDR games were built on the existing community straight from the get go (The very first DDR game for the PlayStation has cover art that is nothing more than a picture of the arcade machine). Since then, it's always been catered to people who played and not random buyers who have never owned a DDR game or never played before. Oh they're happy to get their business, but not at the expense of the existing community... not until now. Console DDR has been in decline since they've shifted towards "Bringing in a younger audience" or "Marketing the game towards non-fans with mainstream music".

HP4/New Moves sold badly because it was a badly made game that sacrificed too much of what DDR means to players. To the point where we couldn't identify with it. Showing a beta that looked and played like the DDR X2 arcade then failing to deliver anything close to it sure didn't help. Konami should know that all music games are in decline in the states, not just DDR. Changing the recipe now is just going to drive away those few that stuck around.

It would be a pleasant surprise and the right move on Konami's part for DDR II to make amends with those of us who have been waiting for a decent console released since DDR X. Honestly, I thought X2 was decent enough but that's just my opinion.

When it begun that may have been true, but CS DDR has been increasingly relying on casual gamers to make its sales. And that last part is simply not true, HP1 and HP2 both individually sold over a million copies (I think HP1 may be up to 2 million by now) and were largely either hated or ignored by the community. HP3 and HP4 sold considerably less (400,000 and 210,000 respectively) due to, in my opinion, increased competition from games like Just Dance along with Konami's steadfast refusal to release non-bundle versions of the Wii games until long after the release date.

It's hard to tell how much effect veteran players have on sales. The very last US CS game that I would say veteran games were pretty much universally happy with (EXTREME 2) sold well, but that was still during the heydays of the PS2 DDR, so it's hard to make a judgement about that. DDR II is clearly reaching out to the veteran community with X2 songs and harder charts, so we'll have to see whether it makes a difference. It's notable that they are still reaching out to casual players with the licenses (although I believe the inclusion of The Spice Girls and Goldfrapp is directly aimed at me ) and the promise of collabs with "famous" artists.

When that trailer was released, it was almost universally hated by the community. The only reason we seem to look at it with such a rosy view now is because of what we ended up getting, but I can't imagine the community endorsing that produce had it been released.

And that trailer was not X2 beta. Yes it had a similar looking song wheel but that is really where the differences stopped. The arrow graphics were completely changed and the dancing characters/stages were being designed to look more "realistic" instead of the usual "cartoony" look.

I don't know about America, but here in the UK the game has always been casually driven. I found a flyer for EuroMIX2 a little while back while contained a little bit where Konami suggested that previous games in the series (Dancing Stage (1.5) and EuroMIX) were more popular with MALES than females, and EuroMIX2 would supposedly balance that out more, hence the use of more pop songs like Steps, Solid Harmonie, Rednex, not to mention the dropped 'N Sync song(s) found on the disc. Even the first Dancing Stage game was altered to include a couple of unique licences for the European market as well as to make the game more appealing to western culture. It was obvious that Konami saw that DDR was TOO hardcore and appealing to the main, male demographic more than the more casual female one which is probably what people expected.

This is also the fault of society building an idea of what is suitable or expected for men and women to like. DDR is notorious for being seen as a game that should appeal to women, but having a MASSIVE male fanbase. DDR's "hardcore-ness" is both one of its unique factors and also its undoing; it almost appeals too much to its fans at times, even when Konami seem to be ignoring us (those stupidly difficult songs aren't aimed at newbies afterall).

Just Dance managed to capture its expected casual audience almost flawlessly because they marketed it right. That's not to say that men don't play it, but right from the off the expected audience was captured so there was no confusion. I think that this also has something to do with how the Japanese and American/European cultures and approaches to games differ, and also how Japan views other cultures.

I believe that Just Dance is developed in America, right? So it would make sense that they would know how to market it for that audience because the developers know what THEY would like. Japan has to judge by what media and research tells them. That's not to say that they haven't made a valiant effort, but sometimes I really can't blame people for looking at a DDR game and scratching their heads. They want and expect familiar pop and dance songs, and sometimes they get that to some small degree, but largely they get a lot of unknown foreign songs and artists and songs that can sound quite intimidating.

I think that part of the reason that the early DDR Wii games sold so well was because of brand recognition and the fact that, especially on the Wii, they were largely some of the only really decent dance games. HP1 and 2 were released around 2007 and 2008, correct? Then from 2009 onwards we have the likes of Just Dance and its spin-off games being strongly marketed and appealing to the casual crowd. Suddenly it's not so surprising why DDR began to sell less. People suddenly had more choice and realised that there were other games that fitted the type of experience they were after more.

Just Dance fills that niche that most casual gamers look for in a dance game; it has familiar songs, there's not really any intimidating hardcore-sounding songs, it imitates REAL dancing, the main series is clearly defined and not confusingly presented, it has solid releases and it's strongly marketed so people know what they are getting.

In comparison, DDR is frankly so hardcore that it hurts. There IS room for both a nice list of licences and hardcore dance tracks (I happen to like both, though the boss songs don't really appeal to me so much), but it's a difficult thing to balance and I often doubt that Konami are up to the job of doing it.

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HOTTEST PARTY is really hard to peg for those very reasons. The more the series has matured and refined itself, the less successful it's been. I did not say that all HOTTEST PARTY games sold badly ...but... once the PS2 series died and the Wii became the only console getting DDR year after year the drop off was noticeable.

Maybe Konami inadvertently made Sony fans out of a lot of DDR fans by releasing almost exclusively for the PlayStations. The Xbox games were reliably decent but those never sold as well as the flagship games either. If Konami had dropped the Wii in favor of the 360 it would probably be the exact same story except in HD.


This is what I'm laying my hopes on. That they'll fall back into a main series mentality, focus their A-team and all their resources on a game that has something for all of us. I don't hate the fact that Konami tries to appeal to newcomers, they need to. The X2 arcade had its "mainstream" selection (American, European and Japanese) and still showed existing fans a great deal of love. That's the formula that works and the only one Konami should ever consider using if they're serious about making money off of DDR releases.

Really? [citation needed]



Nor did I say it was. The bulk of the UI was X2, the biggest difference (Those StepMania 4 arrows) disappeared pretty quickly if I remember right. That said, I would have supported that game a lot more than what got pushed out the door.

The NYC Gamer's Night will be held tomorrow and I have received confirmation that DanceDanceRevolution II will be shown there.

Unfortunately, the event is press only, so we'll need to hope that someone there gets some videos of it and/or they release some information on it to coincide with the show (U1 indicated that this may happen). If anyone happens to be going there on other business, please try to get some media on it.

So is the NYC Gamers Nighter going to be today or was it yesterday?

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It was last night. Since neither BMS staff and with the fact that the Gamer's Night was a "press only" event, neither they nor we have any bit more information than what we got from E3 2011.

Surely enough though news will trickle in once the press/whoever even cared to show up that IS press start putting up videos and other things about the game. If not, then we could just wait for DDR's Facebook page to update, hope for Konami to do some "Mall tour" like what they did with their "U-tour", or wait for the game to come out. Frankly, DDR's Facebook Page (Or U1's Facebook Page to be more precisely) will give us more info as time goes on.

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I don't think we're going to see much of anything from the event itself to be honest. I've only found one write-up of the event thus far with a (predictable) lack of mention of DDR.

U1 indicated that they would start releasing more info starting with the event and a few nights ago he said he was waiting for an e-mail that would bring good news to us, but we're still waiting...

oh well that sucks, I was honestly looking forward to this event cause its been such a long time since we got anyword about this game, well hopefully they start releaseing information soon, since the game is really only a month and 2 weeks away.

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