Post #61 · Posted at 2009-08-28 08:26:16pm 14.8 years ago
 Tyma | |
|---|---|
 |
Member |
| 2,309 Posts | |
| Not Set | |
| Reg. 2006-05-31 | |
 | |
Quote: Kyzentun
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
You aren't going to pass or fail a song because of freeze arrows, though?
Post #62 · Posted at 2009-08-28 08:59:42pm 14.8 years ago
| Aegis | |
|---|---|
 |
Member |
| 9,371 Posts | |
 | |
| Reg. 2009-04-16 | |
| "." | |
Quote: Tyma
Quote: Kyzentun
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
You aren't going to pass or fail a song because of freeze arrows, though?
Challenge of having 4 bars of life. (Survival)
You are playing Pluto Relinquished and you have just lost 3 bars. With 1 bar left you see yourself as going to pass, but what is this? The last notes are freeze arrows? :O The pad sucks and it doesn't read that you are holding them? :O (Common issue sometimes with pads where they don't register the hold) And what is this? YOU LOSE THE BAR AND FAIL BECAUSE OF FREEZE ARROWS?!?!? AHHHH
Post #63 · Posted at 2009-08-28 09:12:23pm 14.8 years ago
| Tyma | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 2,309 Posts | |
| Not Set | |
| Reg. 2006-05-31 | |
| |
Quote: Aegis
Quote: Tyma
Quote: Kyzentun
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
You aren't going to pass or fail a song because of freeze arrows, though?
Challenge of having 4 bars of life. (Survival)
You are playing Pluto Relinquished and you have just lost 3 bars. With 1 bar left you see yourself as going to pass, but what is this? The last notes are freeze arrows? :O The pad sucks and it doesn't read that you are holding them? :O (Common issue sometimes with pads where they don't register the hold) And what is this? YOU LOSE THE BAR AND FAIL BECAUSE OF FREEZE ARROWS?!?!? AHHHH
This has nothing to do with gauging the overall difficulty of a song, based on the groove radar, though? That's what we were discussing.
Post #64 · Posted at 2009-08-28 09:16:26pm 14.8 years ago
| Aegis | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 9,371 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2009-04-16 | |
| "." | |
Quote: Tyma
Quote: Aegis
Quote: Tyma
Quote: Kyzentun
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
You aren't going to pass or fail a song because of freeze arrows, though?
Challenge of having 4 bars of life. (Survival)
You are playing Pluto Relinquished and you have just lost 3 bars. With 1 bar left you see yourself as going to pass, but what is this? The last notes are freeze arrows? :O The pad sucks and it doesn't read that you are holding them? :O (Common issue sometimes with pads where they don't register the hold) And what is this? YOU LOSE THE BAR AND FAIL BECAUSE OF FREEZE ARROWS?!?!? AHHHH
This has nothing to do with gauging the overall difficulty of a song, based on the groove radar, though? That's what we were discussing.
So we were discussing the whole "Flashing 10s".
Let's get back to that subject.
Side: gauging=new word.
Post #65 · Posted at 2009-08-29 12:12:20am 14.8 years ago
| Bolt-Edge | |
|---|---|
 |
Member |
| 2,361 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-06-03 | |
| "No." | |
If you know the pads are shit, keep bouncing on the arrow.
Post #66 · Posted at 2009-08-29 12:32:20am 14.8 years ago
| Aegis | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 9,371 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2009-04-16 | |
| "." | |
Quote: Bolt-Edge
If you know the pads are shit, keep bouncing on the arrow.
It's funny when a player first finds out about it with freeze arrows.
Post #67 · Posted at 2009-08-29 11:30:02pm 14.8 years ago
| n00b_saib0t | |
|---|---|
 |
Member |
| 2,327 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2007-02-05 | |
  | |
| "F***ing exhausted." | |
Quote: Kyzentun
So, let me do some paraphrasing, for comparison.
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
Quote: Arctic Wolves
At the Expert level, freezes are often meaningless and very few songs have difficulty revolving around the use of freeze arrows.
Quote: Arctic Wolves
At the Expert level, stops are often meaningless and very few songs have difficulty revolving around the use of stops.
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
i think the point is that on expert freezes arent a huge deal because you're used to them. basic charts go up in difficulty because of freezes, but shinning polaris expert is still just a 7 with all its freezes. i cant think of a singles expert song where freezes make it harder for someone that knows how to hold a freeze. doubles yes, but singles no.
Post #68 · Posted at 2009-08-30 12:30:21am 14.8 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
|---|---|
 |
Member |
| 3,209 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-02-20 | |
| "I'm honestly pissed off." | |
Quote: n00b_saib0t
Quote: Kyzentun
So, let me do some paraphrasing, for comparison.
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
Quote: Arctic Wolves
At the Expert level, freezes are often meaningless and very few songs have difficulty revolving around the use of freeze arrows.
Quote: Arctic Wolves
At the Expert level, stops are often meaningless and very few songs have difficulty revolving around the use of stops.
When you have a song where freeze arrows are actually used, they make a difference in the difficulty, depending on what's done with them.
i think the point is that on expert freezes arent a huge deal because you're used to them. basic charts go up in difficulty because of freezes, but shinning polaris expert is still just a 7 with all its freezes. i cant think of a singles expert song where freezes make it harder for someone that knows how to hold a freeze. doubles yes, but singles no.
The freezes force you to doublestep when it might otherwise be easier to not. Also, see my point about Infernoplex (if you're not familiar with it, you can look it up on groovestats.). A drop in FA at a section is a sign that that section is harder, right?
Freezes make a section harder because they put more stuff on the screen, which your brain has to keep track of. it's the same as the reason why 90% of people find it easier to read at 300-450 bpm than at 100-200 bpm. Less stuff on the screen allows your brain to devote more attention to what remains. Thus, you are able to track the remaining objects with greater accuracy.
Post #69 · Posted at 2009-08-30 01:38:47am 14.8 years ago
| Arctic Wolves | |
|---|---|
 |
Member |
| 2,586 Posts | |
 | |
| Reg. 2008-02-18 | |
Quote: Kyzentun
FELM
The freezes force you to doublestep when it might otherwise be easier to not.
The freezes force you to doublestep when it might otherwise be easier to not.
No they don't. Try again. That section is perfectly crossover-able.
Post #70 · Posted at 2009-08-30 03:04:11am 14.8 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 3,209 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-02-20 | |
| "I'm honestly pissed off." | |
Quote: Arctic Wolves
Quote: Kyzentun
FELM
The freezes force you to doublestep when it might otherwise be easier to not.
No they don't. Try again. That section is perfectly crossover-able.The freezes force you to doublestep when it might otherwise be easier to not.
chart because I'm dumb. Even the chart is only made a little bit harder by the doublestepping. I'm going to stand by the FA drop part of the argument though. Here's the link to Infernoplex so you can check it out. Keyboard it a couple times with freezes on and off, and tell me if you find it easier to FA through the 16th freeze section with the freezes off. Same goes for SMMMO. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can find a DDR example. I know of several in ITG (Oasis, Stars Above).Also, n00b_saib0t is going to jump in and say that doublestepping is quicker and more accurate anyway. To which I say, go doublestep your way through Afronova 1.4x rate.
Post #71 · Posted at 2009-08-30 03:16:58am 14.8 years ago
| n00b_saib0t | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 2,327 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2007-02-05 | |
| |
| "F***ing exhausted." | |
double stepping is more accurate at about 200 BPM 8ths and slower. double stepping songs like(from both games) birdie, afronova, EOTC, HVAM, monolith hard, FELMO, etc is just easier for some.
that section before the speed up of FELMO isnt any harder for a veteran player than a section without freezes, and double stepping doesnt hurt them. on the other hand, if you want to try and double step the ending of FELMO, bloodrush expert, PSMO, etc you're asking for trouble.
dont chime in about what i'm going to say unless you know how i play, thanks.
that section before the speed up of FELMO isnt any harder for a veteran player than a section without freezes, and double stepping doesnt hurt them. on the other hand, if you want to try and double step the ending of FELMO, bloodrush expert, PSMO, etc you're asking for trouble.
dont chime in about what i'm going to say unless you know how i play, thanks.
Post #72 · Posted at 2009-08-30 03:37:48am 14.8 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 3,209 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-02-20 | |
| "I'm honestly pissed off." | |
Quote: n00b_saib0t
double stepping is more accurate at about 200 BPM 8ths and slower. double stepping songs like(from both games) birdie, afronova, EOTC, HVAM, monolith hard, FELMO, etc is just easier for some.
that section before the speed up of FELMO isnt any harder for a veteran player than a section without freezes, and double stepping doesnt hurt them. on the other hand, if you want to try and double step the ending of FELMO, bloodrush expert, PSMO, etc you're asking for trouble.
dont chime in about what i'm going to say unless you know how i play, thanks.
I just remember that a year ago, you said that for the top players, double stepping even something as crossover heavy as PSMO was quicker and more accurate. I can't find the exact post though because google is being lame and refusing to turn up anything.that section before the speed up of FELMO isnt any harder for a veteran player than a section without freezes, and double stepping doesnt hurt them. on the other hand, if you want to try and double step the ending of FELMO, bloodrush expert, PSMO, etc you're asking for trouble.
dont chime in about what i'm going to say unless you know how i play, thanks.
Wait, I found it.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=938805&topic=41828352
Scroll down, and you see this:
Quote: n00bsaib0t
its not too surprising. crossing over is more of an "old school" thing. now a days, double stepping even PSMO is widely considered easier and more accurate.
Thus, I expected him to say something similar, in spite of the passage of time.
Post #73 · Posted at 2009-08-30 04:21:02am 14.8 years ago
| n00b_saib0t | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 2,327 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2007-02-05 | |
| |
| "F***ing exhausted." | |
yeah, but i also go on to clarify that bracketing PSMO with double steps is the "accurate" way(btw, tried it, didnt work, what am i doing wrong? lol).
personally, i cross it over. if you're gonna try and double step it like EOTC, i'm gonna sit there in a lawn chair with a beer and some popcorn and enjoy the show, because its gonna be hilarious :p
i will give you this about FELMO though, if you're new to the series and are starting to learn 10s, that freeze section can be killer, but this is where saying "at the expert level" means being an expert, not playing on the difficulty. i almost forgot about it, but one of the guys i know could get there with ease, and even do the end with relative ease(ridiculous stamina, good coordination, and i'm talking about passing not going brosoni on it and getting 9 greats) but couldnt read the freeze sections so he would fail there. on the other hand, my fat ass can stumble through the first half, be like "lulz braek teim" during the double steps, and either stumble through and pass or stumble and fall down on the ending.
personally, i cross it over. if you're gonna try and double step it like EOTC, i'm gonna sit there in a lawn chair with a beer and some popcorn and enjoy the show, because its gonna be hilarious :p
i will give you this about FELMO though, if you're new to the series and are starting to learn 10s, that freeze section can be killer, but this is where saying "at the expert level" means being an expert, not playing on the difficulty. i almost forgot about it, but one of the guys i know could get there with ease, and even do the end with relative ease(ridiculous stamina, good coordination, and i'm talking about passing not going brosoni on it and getting 9 greats) but couldnt read the freeze sections so he would fail there. on the other hand, my fat ass can stumble through the first half, be like "lulz braek teim" during the double steps, and either stumble through and pass or stumble and fall down on the ending.
Post #74 · Posted at 2009-08-30 04:30:00am 14.8 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 3,209 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-02-20 | |
| "I'm honestly pissed off." | |
I understand what you mean now. At the time, I didn't know what bracket raping was, thus leading to me misrembering what you meant. I can agree that if you can bracket rape well, then it can be a more accurate technique for dealing with PSMO. Heck, I bracketed the jumps at the end of Afronova, when I know I wouldn't hit them nearly as well if I tried to do them without bracketing.
Post #75 · Posted at 2009-08-30 05:20:32am 14.8 years ago
| Arctic Wolves | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 2,586 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-02-18 | |
Quote: Kyzentun
Meanwhile, I'll see if I can find a DDR example.
MAXX UNLIMITED (X-Special). The sloppy freezes in the end always blow my combo, partly because the chart makes no sense and is trash anyway, but I will admit that part confuses me. These charts exist, they just aren't in any kind of abundance, but that's not a bad thing.
Actually, that i feel... mission from EXTREME CS US was a really compelling use of freeze arrows; the kind of chart where the freezes punish you and make things more challenging.
By the way, AGB, if someone is new to 10's, I wouldn't recommend they begin with FELMO regardless of their DDR strengths and weaknesses.
Post #76 · Posted at 2009-08-30 05:58:11am 14.8 years ago
| Tyma | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 2,309 Posts | |
| Not Set | |
| Reg. 2006-05-31 | |
| |
Not sure if you guys are famiiliar with Pump's freeaze arrows? Those are punishing.
I'm "new to 10s", by the way. I have no idea what any of you are talking about :{
I'm "new to 10s", by the way. I have no idea what any of you are talking about :{
Post #77 · Posted at 2009-08-30 08:22:53am 14.8 years ago
| Daiz | |
|---|---|
 |
Member+ |
| 1,465 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-10-29 | |
| |
| "TAKING IT TO THE PIE" | |
Quote: Kyzentun
something about freezes masking note
Ok so I'm obviously talking about DDR, you're talking about the entire scope of 4 button rhythm games (ITG, Stepmania, Pump, etc). As far as 4 directional arrows, Konami's the only big player in my book any more. Everyone else is just amateur. Why? Konami made it popular amongst everyone. Roxor made it popular amongst people who want IIDX for their feet.
Anyways, freezes can also be used to make a song look funner. For people who actually like to look good playing (and no, bar raping doesn't look better than someone actually doing cross overs on PSMO) freezes can force you to turn your body in certain ways. Look at Cutie Chaser morning mix, Silent Hill (3rd Christmas mix), or a lot of the slower songs. If you take a song at 200 bpm that's all 8ths and 16ths freezes won't matter, but some people actually like to play something below 9. At any rate, a freeze adds more DP to your score, so something like The Shining Polaris, you can get many more greats because the OKs will make up the difference in DP. So freezes may not always make a song harder, but they do make a song easier to get an AA (or harder if you take something like Kiss Kiss Kiss).
Post #78 · Posted at 2009-08-30 11:17:22am 14.8 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 3,209 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-02-20 | |
| "I'm honestly pissed off." | |
Quote: Daiz
Every aspect of DDR is perfect and nothing can be improved.
*wipes off fanboy spittle*
Post #79 · Posted at 2009-08-30 12:08:51pm 14.8 years ago
| Bolt-Edge | |
|---|---|
|
Member |
| 2,361 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2008-06-03 | |
| "No." | |
Quote: Daiz
4 button rhythm games (ITG, Stepmania, Pump, etc).
I demand you rephrase this statement this instant.Post #80 · Posted at 2009-08-30 01:07:11pm 14.8 years ago
| PureBlue | |
|---|---|
 |
Member |
| 2,925 Posts | |
| | |
| Reg. 2009-04-08 | |
| |
| "I'm your thorn." | |
Quote: Daiz
Konami made it popular amongst everyone. Roxor made it popular amongst people who want IIDX for their feet.
Konami also drove both ITG and DDR into the ground at the expense of anyone who supported either game. DDR X machines are horrible, and I've heard a rumor that Konami will not distribute X upgrade kits for the US. Talk about adding insult to injury....
