DDR II & hottest party 5 (Wii) (International)

I think that it's proof of how fickle the genre is. I don't know how successful Dance Central has been overall, but I do bet that it hasn't come anywhere close to Just Dance in terms of sales. Since I've read that the latter is going multi-platform now, that ups the pressure on other games despite what fans or fanboys might say.

I actually question if DDR could continue to exist if it focuses too much on lesser or unknown artists. It does make me wonder what would happen if Konami did a game entirely consisting of licensed tracks. I know that they probably never would, since they have all their in-house artists who help keep down costs by including unique music, but it'd be an interesting thing to test. They do it with Karaoke Revolution, after all.

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It would be indeed interesting to see how a DDR full of mainstream music would hold up in terms of sales. Most people these days are hooked on the popular music of this modern age, so they really don't care about the KO's. But if Konami gave them a full game dedicated to licensed music, it might just turn some of the more fickle people towards DDR. That way, Each side would get what they want, and Konami would have more profit IF the game sells well. Of course, the cost to license music would mean that it would have to turn a big profit in order for Konami to benefit from it.

How about just combine them and make a larger list.

I think come the Wii U, and the power, graphics and online differences between the three home consoles levelled out, it might be worth Konami considering going the "platform" route.

What I mean is releasing a game a year on each console and making them the same aside from maybe some exclusive features to take advantage of each one's exclusive control style (and/or the balance board), and just, or mostly, including licensed tracks on each disc and offering online support for extra tracks licensed or not.

This way Konami can release a game that competes with what people expect from a rhythm game these days while providing an online store for more tracks and the ability for people to obtain a library of KO's. In fact the one thing other games don't have compared to Konami is their original music and as a fan I'd love a game where I can play a recent hit and also build a library of my favourite music from Konami. After all, most of us grew up with these games being as much about Konami's offerings as the licensed tracks, and while re-licensing some of these older songs might be tricky, it also might be worth it to allow older fans the chance to have all the classics in one place.

Considering that Konami make it straightforward and affordable enough, I'm more than willing to pay if I can get songs like B4U, Brilliant2U, .59, Absolute, etc in one game. Maybe they could even update them to take advantage of the newer play styles?

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Having single songs availible as DLC really doesn't work, because the overheads levied by Sony and Microsoft outweigh any sort of profit you can generate. Nintendo have already said flat-out that they won't allow publishers to sell things like this on the Wii-U's online marketplace.

The only viable way to do it is to do what they did on the PS3 version of Hottest Party 4, and group five or more songs into a "song pack", so that the pack goes through the approval and vetting process once, instead of each of the five songs going through seperately. Even when they do that, they probably aren't making any money from DLC sales.

Rock Band sort of gets away with it, because they sell themselves to record companies as a form of promotion. Songs from a recognisable artist will usually show up on Rock Band to co-incide with a new tour, or the release of a "greatest hits" album. I imagine most of the money Harmonix make comes from the record companies paying them to feature a certain artist in the game, and the actual DLC sales either make a small loss, or barely break even.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't they try song packs with UltraMix??

All DLC in the Ultramixes had been handled through song packs, I think. Also I think at the release of Ultra4 there was a way to download all of the packs in one DL.

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Can I get a source for the Nintendo quote? First I've heard of ANY confirmation of what the Wii U's online will be like. Last I heard a lot of it was still being decided and Nintendo were working with developers and publishers to see what kind of online experience would be best.

Either way, Nintendo's reservations about online hasn't stopped games from featuring their own online stores, even on the Wii. Nintendo have never prevented DLC (in fact the SD card size update coincided with the release of a game that supported high capacity SD cards) and songs have been sold in packs and individually.


Actually, I think that every song has to be checked anyway. Songs only seem to be combined (in games other than past DDR games anyway) when it makes sense (by the same artist for instance) and even then many games seem to offer them separately. While putting songs into a pack may have suited Konami in the past it is obvious that many other developers do not agree with this strategy and often allow for single songs or the option of packs to help improve flexibility, and therefore sales.


While it is true that some DLC may be released to coincide with such events, I've never been given the impression that DLC in games like this are always done for that purpose. In fact a lot of it seems to be just arranging for whatever songs they can to suit as many different tastes as possible.

I'll admit that I'm unaware of how profitable DLC truly is. Even I have my reservations in that area, though from what I've heard people really like DLC for games like this for convenience and extra playability.

Also, I never got the impression that past song packs were very well emphasised. Konami seem to focus a lot on each individual game (which I respect them for), but for something like this to work well the game would have to be designed for DLC in mind. You'll have to forgive me because I've never owned a system with a DDR game that featured DLC, but it never seemed to be something Konami really pushed for. If they never really tried then it's difficult to judge just how successful it could be.

I did enjoy the first three Hottest Party games, but it's obvious, especially when you compare it to other music and rhythm games, that Konami didn't really do a lot with the series over the first three years.

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http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/08/01/3ds_wiiu_paid_downloads/


When you submit an item to the PSN or XBL stores, you pay an upfront fee to have it put through an approval process, that involves a quality check. It also goes through a seperate check to get an ESRB rating. If it's approved, you then pay the console manufacturer a set ammount for every GB of bandwidth that the item takes up on their service.

The approval fee is set per item, so releasing 5 songs seperately means you submit 5 different things to go through the approval process, and pay for each of them seperately. If you lump them all together in a "pack", then the pack goes through the approval process, and you only pay for it once.

I don't see many music games that release items seperately. Rock Band obviously does this, because that's the game's main gimmick. Guitar Hero did single song DLC near the end of it's lifespan, but I think DJ Hero lumped things together in packs? I'm not aware of any other 3rd-party music games that have single-song DLC.


It's something they were apparantly aiming for with Hottest Party 4, but then pulled the plug very early into development, and suddenly dropped all mentions of the "100+ DLC songs" that early literature was promising.

DDR Ultramix had an amazing DLC models The songs were in packs, but each pack seemed to have something exciting that you absolutely had to check out. They took a lot of IIDX songs that people were gagging to play in DDR, and spread them out thinly enough that every pack seemed like a justified purchase. Even now, those packs are the only way to play some of the most sought-after IIDX crossovers in DDR.

I see nothing in that link that confirms what you are trying to say. The only thing that Nintendo seems dead set against is tiny purchases like unlocking keys and minor stat boosts, which is not what general DLC, and especially DLC for music and rhythm games is like.


While some of this may be true, I still believe that most companies would provide the option for single song downloads rather than force players to buy songs that they might not want. Some people might happily buy that one song from a pack that they like, but wouldn't if they were forced to purchase the whole pack. So even if it may put the publisher out of pocket, often it's best to give people more flexibility to encourage downloads.

Of course this is more an argument about the licensing costs surrounding music in general, which is ALWAYS going to prove expensive and difficult.

Actually, speaking specifically for the Wii, Guitar Hero DLC for World Tour started out purely as single song downloads with no option for packs or albums. Of course this would be considered a downside compared to what was being offered on the other consoles, but at the time DLC to this degree was unheard of in a game like this on the system. Then Guitar Hero 5 brought in proper packs and the ability for albums. DLC has always been intended to be released as packs, but single song downloads have always been available as an option. In fact, most of the games I know lean more towards single songs then they do packs.

Off-hand, here's some games I know that permit, or only have, single song downloads:

Guitar Hero
Rock Band
U-Sing
Just Dance
SingStar
Karaoke Revolution


Both U-Sing and Just Dance are single songs-only.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


And that's the problem. Konami tend to spread their music too thin and make it too troublesome to get songs. In the past, this was the norm, and simply releasing and focusing upon games was enough, but it's not the 90's and early 2000's anymore; music and rhythm gaming has moved on and evolved, and Konami are gradually getting left behind because they refuse to properly embrace new ideas and technology in a way that makes them vastly appealing.

Believe me, I'm not a huge online player, but even I see the value of a gaming platform that gives players simple options. Once you've tasted something like that, it's really hard to go back to something like DDR.

What I find ironic is, as much as a like them, I've seen people like or react indifferent to the first three Hottest Party games, when looking back I can honestly see how mediocre they actually were, when other games that I would personally say were a lot better and pushed the genre further got panned by critics and fans.

I'm a DDR fan, but Konami are really starting to annoy me with how similar and uninspiring each new release is. I don't just want "this year's DDR with barely anything new", but something standardised and with bigger appeal. I want DDR to be cool again and at the top of its game.

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They jumped on the iOS bandwagon pretty early compared to most big name game producers. The fact that jukebeat just got released tells me they know how powerful the platform is and how easy it is to capture a global audience through it. Just yesterday I noted that Joystiq ran an article about it calling it a solid buy, and I can't recall them even so much as mentioning DDR releases.


DDR X2 says hello. It's baby brother is going to have something to say later this year as well. Now all we just need to do is get Konami to say GOODBYE to Betson and we'll be set.

I was talking about home console releases. I would think that me talking about Wii games that that would be obvious? iOS is a mobile platform and is a completely different kettle of fish since it doesn't even really support standard gameplay.

So allow me to amend my statement: "left behind on home console releases".


I don't appreciate being patronised. The problem is the games and releases are still too fragmented and non-integrated. Wasn't DDR I on the Wii delayed in Europe for like half a year again? Not to mention the graphical and syncing issues I've heard about on the HD and arcade releases. Konami seem to be reverting to their old tricks of screwing Europe over and I honestly don't appreciate it. Is it really so wrong to desire a single, straightforward DDR platform released worldwide (to whatever possible degree) and with a nice selection of songs, features and support? Surely we've reached a point where technology would allow for AC and CS releases to reflect each other as much as possible and for each console to share the same basic game and gameplay so that nobody gets left out?

I get the impression that people feel as though I am attacking the game, when it is quite the opposite. I WANT DDR to move forward and succeed, but Konami seem to be stuck so much in the past on their release strategy and have made and allowed for so many issues and problems over the years that I've pretty much ever given up on them bringing the series back to its former glory.

When I see people being critical towards certain games and developers, sometimes even harshly, it really goads me when others are allowed to get off scot free, or worse, have apologists acting like there's nothing wrong and nothing needs to be fixed and improved. I'm not saying that we need to be all "oh, DDR is dead", but to not recognise how much Konami have really dropped the ball in many areas and really need to make some improvements to bring the games and releases up to what people expect these days just seems foolish and naive to me.

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X2 gave us Replicant D-Action. Wasn't that new and exciting?? And who knows just what Konami has in store for us when X3 comes out. The possibilities are endless: New modes, new options, new ways to interact with fellow DDR players. If you think about it, DDR has a long way to go before it can "die". I'm not trying to attack anyone, that is not my goal nor will it ever be, but think of what COULD be instead of what WAS. Sure, back in it's "golden age" DDR could do (almost) nothing wrong, but the new technology that constantly comes out allows for a whole new level of play and interaction. The new age is just beginning, and i predict before it ends, DDR will be as good as ever

But that's just the point, I AM thinking of what "could" be if Konami pushed things a little more. Improvements have been made but the series just doesn't have its big appeal like it used to.

Let me give an example of an annoyance I have: I really don't enjoy playing Hottest Party 3 because when I play on Free Play, because I'm a good albeit not amazing player, every three songs it'll force me into a Dance Battle that I don't want to do. So I'm left standing there for two minutes to let my character fail so that I can keep playing the songs I WANT to play. It wouldn't be so bad if it could be turned off, but the game forces this on you. If there is a way to turn it off that I've somehow missed dear god please someone tell me!

It's incredibly jarring from a gameplay perspective and an example of Konami not considering playability and ease of use.

Throwing in some small gimmick isn't going to win me over when there is still so much that needs fixing with the core features of the game. I mean we've had what, five Wii games so far? And only now are Konami adding in doubles support which has been around longer than most other features and often requested?

Why is wanting all the basics to work such an unreasonable request? Why do I feel so vilified purely for wanting a more complete experience?

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Okay, you got me there. Doubles should've been implemented a LONG time ago on the Wii. Wanting a complete experience is not a bad thing, it's just Konami wants you to buy,buy,buy. They're going to make us wait it out, which frankly, isn't very fair. So i guess what you're trying to say is that we support Konami no matter what and yet they continue to dissappoint and drop the ball? (Correct me if that is not the message you are trying to relay)

It's odd how Konami wants you to buy, yet expects people to do this without absolutely ANY form of advertising whatsoever.

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Yeah.......i've never seen a commercial from them about ANYTHING. Did they not adapt to the whole "Television is a good way to advertise and raise awareness about your products and/or services while raising profits" thing??

Exactly. Even though Just Dance, gameplay-wise, is really not very good at all, when it was released they had adverts pretty much every ad break. Why can't Konami do that?

OH WAIT, I just remembered that the only game Konami thinks they release here is Pro Evo. Never mind.

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That's right!!!! Because Pro Evo. is the MOST IMPORTANT GAME EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gosh, i feel just silly!!!!!!!! Who cares about every other game that Konami releases??? It's all about Pro Evo!!!!!!!!

It's clear to me that Konami was stepping into Nintendoland with practiced trepidation. It's also clear to me that they want to make this the flagship console for the series. I think a good portion of DDR floundering on the console side of things was the loss of momentum as the PS2 ended it's life cycle and Konami had to make a choice as to which current generation system was worth the money. I would say they've chosen a path now and that we're going to see things kick back up again. On the other hand, DDR is not what it used to be in America or Europe and we're going to see the effects of the market reflect on future games as well (for better or worse).

I wonder if the PS3's inexcusable lack of backwards compatibility had something to do with it. Think about how the 360 has a limited library of Xbox games that will work (Excluding all seven DDR games made for it), how Sony can't seem to make up their mind about hardware/software/Make fans rebuy all their old games on the PlayStation Network compatibility issue. And then there's Nintendo. If all I have is a Wii and I want to play DDR Mario Mix, I'm golden. Their promise is to allow all Wii games to run on the Wii U. Doesn't that sound like a better system to hedge one's bets on?


I disagree, phones and tablets are now essentially computers. The games released on them are compatible to current generation consoles (which is easy since they're all five years old now). So I don't see the disparity between the platforms anymore. I understand that DDR doesn't exactly work on an iPhone since there is no option to hook up a pad... yet (Ask about what the next couple of updates to AppleTV are going to allow you to do).

The irony is that unless Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo do some serious forward thinking for the next generation of consoles, THEY are the ones who are going to get left behind.


You... aren't. I'm just surprised that you don't see X2 as a landmark title for the DDR series. It introduced a lot of good refinement and a boatload of new tracks. As well as a very positive sign that DDR is in no danger of slowing down.


This is true. Konami keeps promising "Global" releases and does everything but deliver on those promises. the arcades are delayed forever then released with substandard hardware, and console release cycles are either dry or forgotten entirely. It should be noted that while it looks like Europe is getting dumped on, Europe has more recent console releases of DDR than Japan now. And on more systems. Opinions of those releases aside, I'm more worried about the home market in Japan right now. If they're really planning to reignite the series on the Wii they need to just do it. Konami will be Konami, they don't march to the same drum as other companies. But regardless, unless they do something positive soon, they'll forfeit entire regions that once contained devoted fans to their games.