DanceDanceRevolution X (AC) (International)

There's a small difference between replacing a little disc, which takes ~0.5c to copy, and replacing an arcade machine which probably takes several thousand dollars to make each one.
Then there's the shipping costs on top of that.

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You forgot the cartridge recall. And Nintendo was a fledgling company at the time, it wasn't a financially sound decision but it was the best customer relation decision.

The point I made wasn't about comparing costs of recalls, it was about what a company does when it cares, even if it just pretends to care. Trillions are dumped into PR every year around the world for a very good reason. You could have a cure for cancer, but if the public hates your guts you're dead.

Actually Nintendo started out in 1889. I wouldn't consider that "fledgling"

Cost dictates what can and will be done. You can't separate those two things. Perhaps someone in KONAMI desperately wanted to replace all machines, but the magnitude of the cost of this venture would have it shot down by just about any company. You can't reasonably expect a company to recall an arcade machine, especially in this day and age when the arcade scene outside Japan is not a powerhouse industry. You've worked yourself into such a fury, you've pushed your expectations to unreasonable levels and it's clear there's pretty much nothing KONAMI can actually do at this point to appease you, since they're not going to do what you want them to do. Yes, they fumbled things horribly, but they're trying to make things right, and DDR is not the only thing going on at KONAMI, nor is it their most profitable, so I think it's great that they've taken the time to meet and ask the community.


No. Just no. Or are you so stubborn that if a company you loathed managed to solve the cause of 13% of all human deaths, you'd still boycott it? That's just insane.

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True, I meant as a video game company. And despite their age they did not have a whole lot of money at the time.


You act like no one has ever recalled anything remotely as expensive. Cars get recalled, entire production lines. And despite how you've colored me it still is not unreasonable to take back these machines and replace them with working ones. For one, it's worth more to keep the customer happy as Konami would no doubt know, and those returned machines are still brand new and can be stripped for parts and materials. This would also only effect America as the machine is still not for sale in Europe, that's how many machines in total? I'd be surprised if it was a double digit number, with all the orders that got canceled once it was made apparent how bad these cabinets were.

If Konami can't do the optimum thing, as stated above, they can still save face. Stop production and release of future cabinets, issue upgrades kits (bolded for emphasis) so that sales can continue and when the problems have been ironed out of the new cabinet reinstate production or just don't bring it back at all. I say again, if Konami never intended to release that God cabinet that they gave Japan into the outside world why did they waste money making a tertiary design when the SuperNOVA cabinet was still new and working perfectly? If the answer was money then we're back to square one; they did it wrong.


Yes, Arctic, that was indeed a literal statement.

If Konami won't do either of those, if they willingly throw out good idea one AND two. There's a horrifyingly simple and blindingly obvious solution. There always has been; PUT FOUR SENSORS IN EACH ARROW! How much do those sensors cost? How much have they lost in revenue from the change they collected not putting them in? Yeah, that is a scary thought. And all the money they've now spent PRing to save DDR X... Someone, probably a few someones, need to be fired and then shot.

And now they want to put plastic bumpers into the slots where sensors go.

dot
dot
dot

What is the cost difference between those bumpers and an actual sensor? This is beyond stupid. If Konami would just fix the god damned pads, the ones they never should have fucked up in the first place, this would probably all go away. It's like they've signed a contract saying that on pain of death they will not put all the arrow sensors into the machine. They dance around it like that metal plate on that Star Trek episode that vaporizes you if you touch it. ANYTHING but the sensors. We'll make it bake you a chocolate cake before we put the sensors back. Even if they won't recall the machines and give America decent ones, even if they refuse to issue upgrade cabinets in a tired attempt to make people junk the old cabinets, if they can't be arsed to install the proper amount of arrow sensors and will even go so far as to put something else in its place, then they've successfully killed their brand as far as I'm concerned.

I'll just reiterate what I got to say then: KONAMI are looking at the pad issue right now and it will be sorted eventually.

hahaha sorry, got caught up in the moment

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Oh, that's right, because a little cartridge has similar production and shipping costs to a large arcade machine, and people die in horrible accidents when there's a problem with an arcade machine. I'm sorry I ever questioned your judgement.


On the topic of the sensors: The bit about having one sensor was guesswork before the pad was opened, based on how it responded to taps in different areas. Someone on BMS has since taken apart a pad for maintenance, and other people have mentioned arcades modding the pads to make them work better. From Brazen's description, it sounds like the problem wasn't the number of sensors. Rather, the problem was the the sensors were free to move to a limited extent, and could thus move into a position where they couldn't sense the panel being pressed. This made the pads good enough to AAA hard songs on, but they still mostly had problems with freezes. So I'd say that the problem with the pads has a known solution. Good work Konami. Next up: Turning off the announcer.

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I was wondering how long it would take you to resort to purely lobbing insults.

The fact is there is only one sensor even though there are slots for four, as with all other DDR machines. Why is it that the newest mod of the new stage does very well with arrows but still sucks on Freezes? Because typically when people hold freezes their weight shifts on the arrow, even if their feet stay in the same spot. When this happens on old DDR machines with bad sensors they tend to drop freezes. That's also why any cut-corner machine is going to drop freezes. The multiple sensors have always acted as redundancy and since the advent of anything harder than PARANOiA they've been needed just for normal gameplay.


Even you should be able to see the hilarity in that. They're 'looking' but not seeing. We all knew why the new stages sucked from the get go. They have to launch a probe and figure it out cause they honestly don't know. Whether or not they intend to actually 'sort' the problem still remains to be seen. Their current disposition towards the defect suggests that will not. I'd love to be proved wrong on this one.

No, as you failed to see, or answer, I pointed out again that there is a substantial cost difference between an arcade machine and a little game cartridge. That cost difference makes it unfeasible to ship the machine around to return/replace it, especially when a method for improving it can be applied without moving the machine across the country. Why you have such trouble grasping this, and think that an arcade machine (an entertainment device, people play something else if it malfunctions) is comparable to a car (a transportation device, people die when it malfunctions), is completely beyond me. Thus, I am forced to conclude that you are incapable of making a reasoned comparison.

Now for the second point: Do we have any confirmation beyond that ONE video that I linked to that there is only one sensor per panel? If not, then I'm willing to conclude that there are 4 per panel, and that the issue is due to the foam holding them in place being not quite sufficient in some cases.

PS: You also seem to lack the ability to consider new information and factor it into your opinions and projections.

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aeron


















u mad

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somebody doesnt like to have fun lol

Nah I'm putting the thread back on the rails. It's an interesting discussion at the moment.

Guys whats the big deal over a VIDEO GAME? jesus christ get a fucking grip

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I thought they pretty much confirmed here: http://www.bemanistyle.com/forum/f6/dance-dance-revolution-x-ac-all-regions-jp-us-release-30264/index86.html that there are 4 sensors and that the perception of one sensor was due to the fact the other 3 sensors had shifted away from their placed spot due to cheap glue.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, and I can already hear Kyzentun drooling, but the sensor pipe is the plastic cradle that an arrow sensor sits in. When you lack a sensor, the pipe is empty. To fill these pipes with... the modification thing, is supporting the arrow properly again but is still not a sensor. Ergo the freeze issues. If not, what the hell is a pipe and why is that a good thing to rest a sensor on?

If there are in fact four sensors in these machines, and since it's already been established that machines shipped with one per arrow we're talking about the lucky ones that actually got four sensors, and they're still failing to register basic user input properly then the problem is not a simple fix at all and the new stage design has somehow broken the accuracy of input that all DDR players have come to expect from the game, even more so a factory new machine with the newest version of the game.

Again, this when most companies would issue a recall. It's just a game, and I'm upset at how Konami has flunked when they needed to be on top of their game the most, but I can actually articulate my voice and vent in a controlled manner (i.e. without playground name calling) and as I pointed out about 100 posts back I am doing something in response to it. If Konami wants to drop the ball then stare at it sitting on the ground that's their choice. But by all means, keep Why So Serious?ing like you completely disagree.

Haven't seen an apologist movement this fierce since Vista was released.

ddr sucks anyway

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First, you're acting as if Konami's not doing a thing to alleviate the problem. They're issuing software updates and mods to the cab. You can't do a thing about the fact the release was botched. You can continue to live in that past, but I look forward and encourage Konami to find a solution to the problem and issue it out so that we may enjoy DDRX.

Second, where are you getting your information that it's been "established" that there's only one sensor in DDR X arrows? There was one video, that's it and it originates from here: http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8966197&sid=15c10aa75f2d3715ec545bcce3d74c08 This is the only place I've found the information.

And also do remember that at once people thought the pads were made out of wood and it's been comfirmed they're not exactly wood, just textured to look that way and it's just the bottom of the pads.

This entire thread is based on entitlement, and assumptions of the worst possible nature. It's about the "DDRX Cabinet Scandal", and everyone's just fighting over themselves to have a stronger opinion on the matter than everyone else.

About 3 weeks ago, the owner of Hollywood Bowl in Leicester made a post in the thread, saying something along the lines of :

"Hey, we contacted Electrocoin and gave them feedback on the cabinet. They've just sent someone out to apply a fix to the pads, and update the software. You are all welcome to come and play the machine, please let us know what you think of the fixed machine, so that Electrocoin can bring this machine, and all machines upto the standard that players expect."

I don't think anybody responded to, or even aknowledged this post. Everyone was still too busy trying to articulate how angry or how sympathetic they were, to even notice that Electrocoin have been aggressively trying to fix these issues, since the moment they realised that there were issues to fix.

I'm glad you used the "e" word - entitlement. From the very start I've had this feeling that everyone felt as if Konami owed them something.

One of the things that also irked me is that a group of people saw that Konami claimed that they built the cabinets, Betson was only the distributors and this group of people refused to believe Konami. They swear that Konami was bullshitting them and that it was still Betson, or even yet, Raw Thrills, that designed the cabinets. If Konami came out today and said "we are very sorry, we're going to replace the sensors, give you new software that comes with 50 extra songs and free e-Amuse for everyone for a year!" people would still whine about something Konami didn't do. What I don't understand that amidst all of this anger ever since Supernova, DDR continues to be successful enough that arcades are buying it. Wtf. I just think it goes to show that DDR's success is bigger than these online communities. I was playing yesterday and had a group surprised that it was even possible to achieve and "AA" score. As in, they thought you can only get an A or higher. Omg, can you guys believe it, people who know nothing about BMS, ZIV or Stepmania actually play DDR too! Meh