DDR X2 (AC) (International)

i love it when kids just run across the pad or butt in when im playing doubles....true story,

a kid was looking at me playing doubles, he jumps in when the arrows are on the right side and then when they move to the left side bam! i think my knee hit him and he fell, started to cry and the mom comes and told me

lady, "what the hell is your problem! he wants to play!"

me, ...

lady, "why dont you watch what your doing big foot"

me, "why dont you look out for your child? why did he get hurt? because you weren't watching him"

lady, (flips me off)

has happen to me at least 5 times....i dont usually tell them nothing, i just continue to play like nothing happen....


so your saying that the speed mod change during the song is like the first few measures and then after you can play the song normally?

isint that a dumb feature then? whats the point if you cant like change the speed like in the middle or towards the end....

betson should really try and sell some upgrade kits for old style cabs....i prefer my pads from my cab....

but yea ill be in the LA area around mid june, maybe actually play some games, last time i was feeling a little ill and just left early since i was on a business trip...

The X2 speedmod changing in the beginning of a song is a matter of convenience. It lets players skip the options screen, which will shave a good 5+ seconds off your non-playng time. Each song has a different time at which the speedmods lock. Some songs lock before the arrows show up, but most lock after. Some lock waaaaaaay after the first couple measures, which is horrible if you're trying to play at Round1.

Which three machines are doing this? How many are X2s and how many are/were Xs? How many are location test machines?

Not knocking you, yin, just want confirmed data. It would be helpful to know which machines are wigging out especially if the locations themselves are unaware of it being a problem. If they are all going bad for the same reason then we have something specific to complain about to Betson.

1) Round1 - bug has been permanent for almost 3 months.
2) Jenkinson's South Arcade, NJ (according to AceJay, machine does it "sometimes". iirc Sudden/Hidden+ is controlled by the up/down buttons, and so crosswired pads/buttons would have pads controlling sudden/hidden+ as well.)
3) Somewhere in the UK, opposite weirdness - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1LW1KH6x4g

Additionally,
4) the tech from Latitude 30, FL reported button weirdness - http://www.bemanistyle.com/forum/733623-post736.html

Of what's in Ziv, there are 11 entries for US X2 (one of which is Funplex, which may not even have a machine anymore.. and it was pre-final), and there are 3 entries for EU X2. Hence the 11-1+3 = 13 number. It's of course possible that not all Betson DDRX2's out there are recorded in Ziv's arcade locations database, but even then unreported machines can still malfunction and have short-lived sensors too. What I currently know indicates a 30% malfunction rate with the pads/buttons, which is why I'm now thinking it's a wider, electrical issue from construction. I'd like to think I'm wrong but logically I can't conclude much else now.

very late edit:
5-?) http://www.bemanistyle.com/forum/735815-post744.html

Would we say that all three machines having this problem are heavily played?

Because if they are, I'm wondering if stomping too hard on the stage (not too hard, but too hard for THESE stages) is damaging control boards or wiring, Which is then causing this issue.

Funplex's cab is gone and it's not the one at Jenkinson's. That one's a brand new X2, not an X upgrade (unless maybe Betson upgraded returned cabs and is selling them as "new" X2s haha)

Also, I can't remember exactly what it was, but on the Jenks cab, if either Hid/Sud+ was activated and you tried to use the cab buttons to adjust it, it would only add to the Hid/Sud+ and you couldn't recall it/make it go back to 0. Really terrible when we tried to adjust after a slowdown lol


No, this happened 3 days after the game arrived at Jenkinson's.

This happened to me so many times. The arcade with DDR Extreme in it was pretty much for kids. I've bumped into so many kids during doubles play. They're so goddamn hard-headed.

Meh, at a different arcade, it happened again. I felt a little better when the child was scolded by the mother.

This is probably my most hated scenarios of playing DDR in public: stupid kids.

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Edit: I went to Latitude 30 today and talked to Priest, which I assumed was the technical staff of the business. He learned that the ITG sensors DO in fact work on the X2 pads, which they worked a hell of a lot better than the crap sensors that the machine had beforehand. The only issue is the need of double-sided tape and about 20-30 minutes of work to keep the ITG sensor steady, but it could possibly go at any time even with this method.

Also, I almost cried due to the freeze drops I kept on getting. It killed so many of my scores.... T_T

Hey guys I'm the tech from Latitude 30. We are ordering a set of 8 to replace the old ones and will continue the order sets of 8 till the machine is running on all ITG sensors.

This is what I did for the sensor mod to work. I'm using sensors from mymybox.com They are the best I've worked with besides old Pump sensors.

1. Remove the old sensor and the metal bracket held down by two Phillips head screws.

2. In the place of the metal bracket place a strip of double sided tape. http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6109864&sku=YYAZ-MMM4026 (This was the tape we already had at my job, but I may try another type as the sensor didn't want to stick to this very well.)

3. Place the sensor on the double sided tape and connect it to the machine.

4. Place a strip of the double sided tape on the underside of the arrow. This is to emulate the action of the metal bracket that used to be in the old design for the pads, so make sure it's the same length as that. If you don't know what I'm talking about for any reason here is a link to what the old pads looked like. http://www.pnwbemani.net/articles/arcade-machine-maintenance/cleaning-an-arcade-dance-dance-revolution-pad/22 DO NOT expose the sticky side towards the sensor. Just leave the peel off stuff on the tape essentially making it thick one sided tape.

I hope this helps any of you out there having problems with your sensors. I imagine I will have to tweak the mod a little before it's perfect so if anyone has any feedback or ideas please feel free to post up. I will do the same if I change anything.

Also it won't take 20-30 minutes to fit these sensors, I took that long with this one because I was testing different ways of making the sensor work and this was the best I've come up with so.

Time per sensor should be around 5-10 minutes.

Also make sure you screw the panel back in with all four brackets before testing sensitivity. It will have almost no sensitivity before securing the panel down.

KONAMI > DDR & DS > Mod DDR X cabinets with ITG sensors

As great as that might be if it works, i can almost guarantee that 99.9% of arcades will not do it even with players suggesting it to technical staff, but just goes to show that your method basically says "The sensors worked better how they were to begin with, why did you have to break something that was completely fine?" and hopefully whenever the next mix comes out and konami give someone a chance to test it at bemanistyle (presumably it'll be them that gets it again) they'll actually be able to feed this back to them and hopefully it'll end up being mass produced this way.

Go figure they never tested to see if the pad design would hold up in long term play... or if they did go figure they didnt do anything about it (Whether its their fault or betsons fault or whoevers fault it is)

Yeah I am lucky in the fact that the place I work for trusts me to mod the machine and gives me the freedom to do so.

I was also thinking if someone knew how to they convert the entire dance floor to the old style. You can order all the hardware. You would just have to make screw holes for the three screws to hold the metal bracket in place. If it were my personal machine then I would give it a try, but I'm not going to start putting holes in an arcade machine I don't own. :/

There's the problem... bemanistyle isn't going to be able to test if the sensors will hold up in the long term.

Yeah that's the problem with location testing. Sensor can't be properly tested. The new sensors for X2 work great out of the box. It's just the design of them leads to broken connections very quickly.

Also, I didn't really follow location or any other testing for X2. Did they have a location test using the new "US" dance floor or was it still the Japanese design?

What i meant was when they poke bemanistyle about testing (if that even happens) HOPEFULLY this time they'll turn around and say "Make sure these pads are gonna last more than a week by say putting them on an old already existing machine and see if you get any "Feedback" regarding it" Its not difficult for them to do, just come up with a pad design and stick it in a public place where a known user is, tell them that the pads are being tested and if they can report back on how they are holding up. Would cost them the price of changing one arcades set of pads and a few minutes of sending emails to set up.

Question : Would you happen to know if the DDR X panels could be replaced the same?

Other then that. YEAH! Fixed pads for X2!

I found a much better modification without the need for swapping sensors, however. If a problematic sensor is still connected then you are going to have trouble, If you have sensors like that disconnect them, rotate and stick them on the outside of each panel. The design of X2 is really well done (having seen the internals of both the prototype and final design), however the sensors themselves are the problem, they don't have a thick rubber between the contact points inside, and instead have only very little to stop the sensor from closing the circuit.

Now for the main fix;

In the little time we had X2 here, the pads were on the way out (sticking, etc) and since the staff didn't give a shit I examined what I could do to rectify the problem. On examination the pads here would stick with the corner brackets held in place (as the DDRX2 panels aren't recessed one bit) so all you do is, place 1x m6 1mm washer under each screw in the corners. This will add space between the bracket and the panel.


This picture is valid evidence showing that the panel is higher than the bracket.

If I get the chance to play on said cabinet again, I'll be sure to get you guys pictures.

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Sounds good. I will try this mod out on Wednesday when I go back to work.

So it's more of the brackets holding down the arrows instead to broken sensors?

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The main problem in most arcades I've been to is that a large ammount of force is being put on points around and between the arrows, causing the metal to bend inwards.

The real problem is that Betson asked the wrong people to test the stage, and didn't realise that players would bracket and/or bar-rape. Both of which are things that reduce the estimated lifespan of the pads from "10 years" to "a day". They just completely underestimated the ammount of force that players who be exerting on the pieces of stage that surround the arrows.