Post Your Controversial Bemani Opinions

Yeah, I think injuries are more common in the game than people think, both acute and chronic ones. I think it's something people don't really talk about but should be taken more seriously.


I'm not sure if lowering the bar would necessary attract new people? I see many people play it *because* it's so iconic, or nostalgic. I could see the case that lowering the bar would yield more long term players (or in your words, lifetime fans) which would be a plus for the player base for sure. I think you'd have to acknowledge that the challenge and difficulty progression of DDR (and most rhythm games in general) is one of the big reason that keeps players returning to the game.

I'm curious as to why this is just now an issue but wasn't with 7th Mix and prior (no beginner, maybe 2 or 3 songs in the whole game rated 1) or Extreme (has beginner but there are songs that are 3 or 4 on that difficulty). The game was more popular back in those days with less access to easier songs than there is now.

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Actually that's a good question. Perhaps back then new players were just more skilled or adapted more quickly? 😅

Although I guess one could argue that even easier charts would have made DDR way back then even more accessible.

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While not as popular as the arcade and PS2 versions, the Xbox games sorted each category by the Light chart's difficulty rating by default and they were pretty popular. Perhaps that sorting method made them more accessible and led to Ultramix having some popularity? I know that might bug some people, but the experienced players will know how to change the sort and the newer ones won't. I think it would be good for the future of the series if the default sort was by Beginner or Basic rating.

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Very rarely do Difficult charts have something interesting that the Expert and Challenge ones don't, and NEVER do the Basic and Beginner ones.

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There is nothing wrong with enjoying only high-level charts, just as there's nothing wrong with enjoying lower-level charts. Let people enjoy the game in the way that they want to enjoy it.

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It's not like I'm someone who doesn't enjoy easy games, either. Like, there are a lot of games out there that I adore that practically play themselves like visual novels. I just see rhythm games outside of that zone, as a genre where the end goal should always be to push yourself harder and harder, much like fighting games. Games like DDR, ITG, StepManiaX, Pump it Up, whatever, need that super-hard difficulty ceiling, in my opinion.

Also, I don't think 1s and 2s really teach you anything about the game. I think any new player (who IS actually looking to play the game for the first time and isn't just drunk and coming across the arcade cab with friends and thinking "let's fuck about on this for a bit") should be able to pass 4s and 5s literally off the bat, unless they've literally never played a video game before.


It probably didn't matter at all when it came to Ultramix's popularity(the games weren't that popular, despite having IN MY OPINION the best original soundtracks for any console mixes), but this sorting method would be a good idea if it weren't for the fact DDR A20+ has either a four figure song count or damn close to it. It definitely works better in console mixes where you very rarely had a triple figure song count.

By the way, what's the default sorting in A20/A20+? We don't get the game, so I have no idea.

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I don't know about that. Some people just don't "get" rhythm games. Like my daughter has done half the shrines and 3 of the Divine Beasts so far in BOTW and it took her a couple days of playing like an hour before she finally passed a song on Beginner. It's not like she's incapable of playing video games, she definitely "gets" BOTW, just not rhythm games.

I mean, Ultramix was popular enough to basically be a 7 game series (because being real, Universe came about because Ultramix did well and is as much part of that series as Max, Extreme, Supernova, and so on are part of the main series) with a ton of DLC, plus 360 got a port of the PS3 game. When you talk to people about DDR now you'd be surprised how many of them actually played on Xbox back in the day. They didn't do anywhere near as good as the PS2 games, but they were still fairly popular in the casual market.

And I think the default sort for DDRA is foldered, but I'm not sure what the actual sort is. I know I've never seen any video where the songs aren't in folders.

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I believe songs being in folders is the default now, I'm just not sure what the default folder/sorting is.


Yeah, I was probably a little harsh on that. The thing is I'm pretty sure that if you play on Beginner, you don't lose your whole credit if you fail something, so the fact that Beginner has 7s and 8s(let's be real, people who can't play 7s aren't somehow just stumbling upon Over the Period and playing it on Beginner) isn't really a bad thing. Beginner going above 5 is very much an uncommon thing. And honestly, I don't mean to sound elitist, but... if you don't GET rhythm games, then you don't GET rhythm games. They're just not for you. You should be able to play things at a difficulty level of 3, 4 or 5 without being overwhelmed, otherwise the genre is (99% of the time) straight up not for you. No game can have a bottomless pit of a skill floor unless they have some kind of accessibility option that makes you invincible(which is a perfectly valid thing, and everybody who says it isn't is stupid).

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Yeah, I like to bring new friends to play DDR with me occasionally and I never tell them to start playing specifically on 1s.


The default is "sort by genre", which is borderline useless. It's mostly only the licensed and crossover songs sorted by English pop songs, touhou songs and I'm not sure what else, but it's not the ACTUAL genre of music. Something I definitely would love DDR to have is the ability to sort by the actual genres of music. Trance songs in one folder, drum & bass in another, etc...

If they're to have more western songs, they need western songs with actually fast and/or complex beats to them. I'm kind of tired of all their western songs being the beginner-level, no-effort-required charts. They should totally think about getting some more underground artists that have something to show the next time they think about getting Western licenses. The underground scene was practically the best part of all the soundtracks of the games of the early 2000s, anyway.

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Because 1s, 2s, and some 3s would just be 1s in a sane world, like what Pump does. But Konami decided that old-scale 1 and 2-footers of all things needed to be subdivided into like 4 difficulties in the X-scale.

Also re: early beginner charts, they were designed for a playstyle where the player was staying in the center and only moving one foot, with a guide helping them. Their ratings in the X-scale reflect how those charts are played without sticking to the center (which DDR started moving away from in SN1 and SN2 -- I think SN2 introduced harder patterns on Beginner charts before X did). So that's why casuals had an easier time with beginner than they do now.


I 100% agree with this. Konami had the right idea when they were combining known licenses with indie licenses in the earlier CS games. The licenses only got bad when Konami decided that EVERY song had to be recognizable, which means that we ended up with the likes of I'm Yours and that awful cut of ICE ICE BABY.

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I definitely saw a simfile of New Rules that was a pretty good 13, so I blame the step artists more than the songs.

At least for the most part they pick songs of genres that fit in with new-DDRs higher focus on EDM. Remember the final few home console versions having rubbish like Hey, Soul Sister and La Camisa Negra?

As a fan of Juanes' pre-2010s output, I'd say La Camisa Negra had the potential for a 13, maybe even a 14. The key would be to take advantage of the guitar licks (there are some 32nd note opportunities on the riff if you're feeling extra spicy), the drum rolls, and of course Juanes' tight and staccato flows. Hey Soul Sister could also have some fun stuff if you charted the 24th notes the ukelele's throwing out consistently accurately, problem is the DDR 2010 step team was sloppy in general but in particular with quantization as shown with The Island Song as well...

Thanks for the indirect (possible) shoutout regarding New Rules btw! I stepped a level 12 and level 14 for the song for the DDR XX project prior to its A20 addition.

Alternately, they could have charted Me Enamora.

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La Camisa Negra is an ok song, and I bet you could chart those songs higher, I just meant they don't sound like dance-able songs to me and they stick out like a sore thumb among the rest of the songlist. I'm fine with the western licenses if they follow along the lines of what else they've picked lately.
I keep thinking I'm surprised Calvin Harris hasn't been in DDR yet...

The charters for things like Ultramix certainly knew what they were doing better than whoever charted the western licenses for DDR A.

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Thank you. I've never seen a machine after X in person so I had no idea how they start the machine off now.


Max.(period) was a 9 on Beginner in Extreme JP CS so a 7 or 8 new scale isn't a huge deal, but there does need to be an easier way for casuals to find the 1's and 2's that they'll actually know (you know, licensed stuff). And I agree there is nothing wrong with accessibility options. Not using Cut and keeping jumps on are really only things you have to do if you care about whether or not your scores "count". I liked the idea of the Help arrow in Ultramix as well, just random arrows that gave massive life bar boosts when you stepped on them. It kinda goes back to what I was saying earlier in the thread, we need to stop making people feel compelled to show that they can play on Expert or pass old scale 9s, and we definitely need to stop shitting on the people who show they can do those things by moving the goalpost by shitting on their song choices and what not, and that includes telling newcomers about those mods if you're at the machine while they're playing. Making sure people have fun while playing a game goes a long way. There is a reason most games today have some sort of easy mode with a "for players who just want to experience the story" description, and even still give trophies/achievements when you play on it (and then have a separate achievement for beating the game on Normal and Hard). And it's those games that tend to sell the best and get sequels. And god dammit I want sequels, so DDR absolutely needs to be more accessible.

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Technically he was: Dancing Stage Universe had "Acceptable in the 80s", and the short-lived DDR Dance Wars had a whole 3-pack from him. I actually did captures of the latter batch to help preserve them back in the day.

Oh wow. Didn't know that and I didn't even know what DDR Dance Wars was.