Chart Discussions

I would recommend: (at least as far as D-Expert is involved)

Bend Your Mind
Disconnected -Mobius-
I Think I Like That Sound
Land of the Rising Sun
Mellow
Remember December
ROMeo & Juli8
VerTeX

Bloodrush
Clockwork Genesis
D-Code
Disconnected Disco
Go 60 Go
Habanera 1
High
Reactor
Spin Chicken
Tribal Style
Twilight

With the caveat that I still prefer DDR-style doubles charts haha. And Delirium D-Hard is certainly just as crap as you've said.

Also holy gosh gentle stress is one of my absolute favorite charts ever. I'll have to go through DDR someday and pick my faves.

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Anybody who generalizes that either game is stupid is close-minded. When it comes to how the charts are constructed, the games are completely different, they appeal to almost completely different audiences. I'll agree that a lot of ITG1 Double left a lot to be desired, but I still like ITG's Double charts as a whole.

If you're going to nitpick charts from either game, you're going to find charts that don't work very well. Delirium on Double was just jump heavy and kind of annoying, but it was also revised in ITG PC and turned out a lot better on DH and DX.

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I'm not a fan of ITG doubles as well. However I don't play much doubles so maybe I don't understand how the complex steps work on 10s and up. I still love ITG even if some of the charts are bad, just don't play the bad ones.

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Really? Like, does this average account for everyone who has ever played -- all those people who can hardly handle beginner we see at arcades? Just curious.

I'm not even familiar with the songs in question, though. I don't know if they are part of the new X2 release or something. Maybe I ought to get back into Dance Dance Revolution. I should also play more doubles.

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I'd say the average player is about..........maybe 5 months experience??? (Give or take)
I hope you mean you don't know songs such as POSSESSION and Anti-Matter. If so, yes, they are indeed from X2

Yes, I was referring to those songs -- I am familiar with Max 300 XD So Max 300 takes no more than five months for the typical player to pass, eh? It's really amazing that such an insanely difficult song is considered only average now (you have to admit it looks humanly impossible in the eyes of a beginner).

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If you pratice at a consistent pace, it should only take about 5 months, or maybe less depending on your coordination. I remember when i first started out, MAX 300 was the scary one, the one that made my eyes widen. It was the big boy on campus. If you passed it, you were the man. Now it's like it doesn't exist anymore, like the years have taken their toll on it. It's sad to see, it really is

Gosh, and I thought when I passed it after eight months that I was doing swell. I'm behind the curve

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When the curve was eight months to about a year, i was WAY behind it. The timeline for passing songs such as MAX 300 and MAXX UNLIMITED has dramatically decreased due to the much more difficult charts being released every new mix. If i could take a guess, i'd say the timeline decreased when SuperNova was released. When SuperNova2 was released, it only solidified it.

I like how you all just forgot the word "SUBJECTIVE" ever existed.

Okay, we got off topic. Thank you for correcting us. Now....in my opinion, when we still had the old ratings scale, bag was by far the easiest ten, as far as charts were concerned, then Sakura. But i've had trouble figuring out the 3rd. I have it narrowed down to MAX 300 and PARANOiA Survivor. Anyone care to chime in with their opinion??

You cannot compare Paranoia Survivor and Max 300 to bag or Sakura.
Even with the 1x in bag, there is just a gap of difficulty by 2levels at most.

Unless you just suck at reading things, then I guess you could pair them together.

As far as chart difficulty goes, i do believe i can compare them. Sakura is a VERY light 10 at best, while bag is easy IF you speed it up. BUT, if you keep bag on x1, unless you've memorized the steps, it can be tough to handle. Now, on to MAX 300 and PARANOiA Survivor. MAX 300 is basically a stamina drainer, and generally (in my opinion) does not take a whole lot of movement. PARANOiA Survivor, on the other hand, makes you twist and turn, which only enhances the difficulty.

Uranus was a 10, and that was definitely easier than Paranoia survivor (and maybe Sakura if your stamina is bad). CHAOS is also probably easier than Paranoia survivor.

By the way, from what I've heard, Sakura was re-rated to a 9 on SuperNOVA 2 (which I find surprising, considering all the rating issues they had around that time).

No, I'm behind the curve. It's been almost 7 years and I haven't passed MAX 300 yet (though I can only play it on Stepmania). I have passed 7 15's + Outer Limits (the one on SN2 US CS, which ever one that is) though, so it's not that bad, since I didn't (and still don't) play regularly.

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MAX 300 is just tiring, really. It's not that fast, it doesn't make you turn at all, the rhythms are relatively easy, and if I remember correctly, there isn't much air. It's mostly difficult because there's such a WALL between the hard 9s and easy 10s. When 300 came out, the hardest 9s were So Deep and Flash in the Night, which would be pretty tame 14s today. We didn't get any easier 10s until EXTREME, and we didn't get many "proper" 14-footers until X2. When there's such a giant wall, it's hard to build up the stamina to pass 300. That's why, in a way, In The Groove is a useful game. It has enough hard 9s and easier 10s to prepare you for the DDR boss songs.

(It doesn't help that most of the DDR boss charts aren't that good, imo :/)

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I just made my own charts for songs and played them over and over until i was ready to pass out. I've never really used In The Groove for anything, not even reference. I've been taught a few tricks over the years, and one of them is play until you think you're gonna pass out, then play some more

That's as much contructive when some people says "DDR sucks".
I love both games, for different reasons. But i have more "hate" moments about Konami than RoXors.

I agree with eatninja about Max300 being a wall, especially in the old days.

It reminds me what i said a year ago talking about Pluto Relinquish last stream : "How am i suposed to stream at 200bpm when there is almost nothing that prepare me to this". FaxX & Felm has some streamy 200bpm parts but that's so short. Super Samurai and Trim have longer stream, but Trim sucks and Super Samurai is only 170bpm :s

I still can't stream at 200. Best speed is 170 on DDRX pads and 180 on ITGpads. If i don't play ITG or keep playing/doing edit to build bridge so i could cross this wall... it will never happend.

And i also have to agree about the last thing that you said. A lot of people yelled at me already because i said it a lot.
I'm talking about the chart or the song or both. But hey, sometimes they surprised me and trow some Possession or I'm So happy . Even Valkyrie Dimension is really awesome WITHOUT the retarded speedup at the end.

Actually, it was re-rated 9 ( chart) on SN after an update. It was still 10 in France but i'm sure the japanese cabs got the good rating.

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I do agree that nothing really prepared us for MAX 300. No real warning of what was to come, no borderline 10 that made us expect it.
Pluto Relinquish was just like "WOW, this one is REALLY out there" But it was just proof that Konami's thinking was changing, evolving. and we the players had to adapt to it

"But it was just proof that Konami's thinking was changing, evolving. and we the players had to adapt to it."
I hope they don't think like this. That's not how it should be done.
They should adapt to players and still try to make some new stuff.

The thing is, every new mix they prove me that they listen players.
But they also prove me on the other hand that they don't give a fuck by trowing retarded stepcharts (since SN, every new waves of "boss songs" have broken ones).

SN :
- Healing-D-Vision (also, lol how they had to fix the - charts later)
- Chaos, seriously, fuck this.
SN2 :
- Paranoia Hades, especially the one.
- NGO oni's jumps.
- Pluto. Some random stops are so retarded and i'm sick of the unnecessary bpm changes.
- The grove radar special, they all sucked (and DEGRS xD). B4U could have been so much better for exemple.
X :
- Trigger ? Fuck off ! That's just noises and steps for make you trip, sweet.
- The X-Special. You did it really wrong Konami. What a waste of a nice idea... i was sad.
- And a bit Saber Wing (remix) too. It has some part that just want to make you brake your combo. Sure it follows the music decently but it was made this way and it's meh. I can't enjoy a chart that i have to learn by playing it 50 times (even if i could play a chart 50 times and enjoy it since the first playthrough).
- Bad use of the "shocks arrows".
X2 :
- Speedup in VD.
- All replicant charts.
- One of the stream in Mei . 200bpm afronova walks in 16th... YEAH.
- Why 4 version of the same song ? Just take the best one and go (also the speedup in version D is meh >.>).

I listed the bad things but like i said, they surprised me with some good features/songs too. I'll list them maybe later.

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I don't get all the hate for Trigger. Can somebody explain?