DanceDanceRevolution A (AC)

I need an explanation as to why Dopamine is bad, without "doublestep" or "gimmicks" being used. Without those two phrases, how is this on par with, or close to as bad as, PtF

I lower my expectations with DDR charts, so this is fine in my eyes, I know it can be better, i've seen better, i'm just not seeing where this is a bad DDR chart.

---

I find that everything from the jump sequence, the stops, and everything else you encounter during the 440 parts, combined with the reading challenge in the lower BPM, made passing Pluto the First as hard to pass as, if not even harder to pass than, Valkyrie dimension . I think handling the 440 BPM ending alone is an element in level 18. So yeah, I do consider it borderline high for a 17. Some people I know actually find the Shock Arrow-filled somewhat more tolerable.

---

Unfortunately, you hit the problems right on the nose. That's exactly why people aren't a big fan of it. Personally I think it's good, but better does exist comparing other charts to Dopamine (Spanish Snowy Dance anyone?)

It wouldn't be as bad considering this was from U1 and around the time Egoism 440 was bound to come out. Wait a minute....

Fascination ~eternal love mix~: controversial where it is among the 18s.

Pluto Relinquish: controversial over mainly the challenge charts.

Go For The Top: not bad for an 18.

Tohoku Evolved: controversial for everything, just everything.

Dopamine: controversial expert chart for its gimmicks.

Egoism 440: controversial for not being a real song. Not to mention cramming 800 steps to a minute and a half.

If I'm missing other high level (17-19) U1 charts, tell me. For the most part, high level U1 songs are bound to be HIGHLY controversial.

---

Only other one I could think of is PRANA+REVOLUTIONARY ADDICT but that's just a remix and not an original song.

I understand that Dopamine has gimmicks, but they're all pretty fun. Which brings us to the real issue here, this site is so anti-gimmick, it's amazing. I've seen people on here complain about songs with a BPM of 90-180. When Cosy Catastrophe and Neutrino came out, half the community had a stroke because of the gimmicks. Yes, Konami has made some bad gimmicky charts (PtF, DEGRS, CHAOS, Pluto etc), but they've gotten much better with making gimmicks actually fun to play. Recent songs like Dopamine, Starlight Fantasia (Endorphins Mix), Cytokinesis, Cosy Catastrophe, and Monkey Business have all been arguably very good.

Bump: The new idol songs are out. One is a 13 and the other two are 11s. Nothing exciting

---

Ah, I remember this vividly from the DDR Hottest Party 3 Wii days. I was wondering why I always broke combo on the 200 BPM stops no matter what I did, until I actually listened to the song at half speed plus assist tick. So there's three cymbal crashes (on beat) before the speedup, and three stops with steps to match them before the speedup. The stops & steps should match the cymbal crashes, right? Nope! Turns out all three stops come an 8th note before each cymbal crash, so all three cymbal crashes go to nothing and all three stops & steps go to nothing.

To put this in perspective, being an 8th note off the music at 200 BPM is worse than the worst quantization in Healing-D-Vision, which is already much worse than the worst quantization in bag:

bag: [the difference between a 32nd and a 24th] = a 96th at 65 BPM ~= 38 ms or enough to turn a Marvelous into a Great
HDV: a 12th at 180 BPM ~= 111 ms or enough to turn a Marvelous into a Good
PTF: an 8th at 200 BPM ~= 150 ms or enough to turn a Marvelous into an Almost/Miss

This would've been during the early X2 days, when they were still making Shock Arrow charts that were copy+pastes of other charts.

Surprised to hear that players picked Pluto the First over at KAC. I can't find any video proof from a nominal glance - do you have any? I know KAC is always measured by EX Score, and has 39 more points than , so this would have to mean a top player felt their mistakes on would be at least 39 points worse than their mistakes on . (E.g. someone thinks they can probably get 50p 1g or -52 on , but only 80p 5g 1m or -93 on .) This feels unlikely.

Heck, Pluto Relinquish is a qualifier right now and its chart only has 45 more points than , yet top players are still picking over because their score isn't 45 points worse than their score. FEFEMZ and Chris both have fewer than 45p on Pluto Relinquish.

Meanwhile, 11 out of the 13 high-level charts in ITG2 (12s and 13s) feature gimmicks.

You lost me at Cosy Catastrophe. That song was pretty much ruined by its speed gimmicks. Neutrino's speedups and slowdowns actually fit the song very well, but it just seemed like they were dicking around on Cosy Catastrophe to artificially inflate its difficulty.

I thought Pluto the First was unselectable at KAC. At least last year it wasn't on the list.

---

I'm far less anti-gimmick than your average ITG player but Cosy Catastrophe's gimmicks were trash. I also would never complain about a single song having a half BPM section, but I do find it incredibly annoying how virtually every hard song in DDR has tempo changes. Memorizing stops and BPM switches when it feels music appropriate, sure (I actually think Neutrino is an okay case due to the actual song tempo changing, plus they do it to actual dynamic switches), but at least 90% of the time it's just unnecessary.

I do agree the gimmicky charts have gotten better, like, SIGNIFICANTLY better, but I don't know how much that means when three of the four charts you listed are beyond lol-garbage tier. Like, if anyone ever submit those to a simfile database and they were originals that person would be mocked endlessly.

I also think sticking to just stops and BPM changes limits how far DDR gimmicks can go which causes them to overcompensate. However, I'm not sure I wanna see what Konami would do with warps, fakes and more split timing (they already effed up the first instance of that last one in that AFA is virtually unbeatable as an EEC the way they're doing speed mods)


Like, more than 99% of the ITG community has stopped playing officials and people mock them all the time (and everyone plays and charts for C-Mods now). I'm probably one of very few that's gonna defend most of the official (and Rebirth) gimmicks in that they're generally far more conservative/tasteful and the majority of them absolutely fit the music (Pandemonium, Summer, Bloodrush, Energizer, I could list virtually all of them). The only ones that seem excessive are the Vertex charts, and I think almost everyone agrees ^2 is an absolute frothing piece of shit. Probably the first one too.

Goddam, why are we all getting so triggered over chart gimmicks and opinions?

I really don't mind any of the new boss song gimmicks at all, tbh. I mean, the gimmicks themselves are what makes the boss charts what they are. Granted, a lot of them could've been implemented better but they're still not so bad as to get all fuming pissed off at them.

---

In my opinion, 18s and 19s expect you to either stay on its level or get off and don't come back until you're ready. In other words, FEEL THE RHYTHM, MOVE YOUR BODY!!!

One must feel the song and its chart to truly understand what it holds. Otherwise we're gonna complain and whine some more about how is this in the game.

Note: trying not to be condescending, but this is what I see and feel.

---

Most 18s and 19s aren't good.

Also don't understand why Domino is against the discussion of chart gimmicks. It's pretty relevant.


Meanwhile, no one plays ITG2 files for a reason.

---

Alright, I like how everyone took my examples, jumped on the controversial one that I happen to like, and completely ignored the other four. So I'll say it again and pull more examples out. Konami has been getting significantly better with gimmicks since supernova era, just like they've been getting better with shock arrows. Reach the sky without you has been a huge hit, imanoguilts is great, and lots of songs have one or two well-timed pauses or slowdowns. I think people just see the songs done badly and go ew, gimmicks when in reality most of them are good.

---

To be fair, I'm spoiled rotten by really cool shit like Mods Boot Camp and UKSRT files and the like. BPM shifts and shock arrows just don't cut it for me anymore. People act like ITG players are crazy purists who just want to stream but it has WAAAAAAY gimmickier shit.

---

Just came here to say I love soflans and songs like CHAOS.

I don't need reminding that most of these were once boss songs.
Maxx UNLIMITED is probably the first to be "gimmicky" boss song. I never hear any complaints about that, probably because it fits with the music.

I want to kindly remind people that a job of the boss song is to make you fail. Every boss song has been conquered.

The first 20 WILL be a "gimmicky" one.

Just want to say I never personally complained about any of them because it separates the good player from the not-good ones. Adaptation is the name of the game.

Trivia Ever since (since X2) 15s and above also applied to more "normal" non-boss songs (think Xepher), gimmicky songs has been a choice rather than "how do we artificially F the player up?". Does a song like Wind Fairy gets one? No. Does a song like JOMANDA gets one? Yes.

Making something with the sole intent of making a player unable to beat it is bad game design which is usually what happens when you don't know the difference between challenging and unfair.

---

Perhaps that is indeed just one difference between boss level charts and some of my edits

---

Endymion CDP and Ace for Aces would like a word with you.

To be fair, they too would be conquered, if they can be played normally.

---