Post Your Controversial Bemani Opinions

Ah, the touch of death for an arcade game. Stuff that you need to look up online to understand.

To be honest, this whole "oh just look it up" or "just join a discord" thing is probably why Bemani arcade games in general aren't as popular as they used to be.

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What's the other reason?


I swear it's like every other trip to the arcade, I have to explain to somebody else how to get started playing one of the DDR machines, and that's probably the easiest UI to navigate out of all the Bemani games (and maybe DanceRush). I never remember how the hell to start playing SVDX or IIDX, so participating in crossover events is kind of a pain.

The sound effects. It's like if all the keysounds in IIDX were shitty Audacity filters.

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I think extreme BPM gimmicks are artificial difficulty and only serve to make players spend more credits playing the game

Time to play catch-up. This is a long one.


I do dislike the fact that I was fumbling around searching for songs in SDVX until one day someone helped me figure out the sorting. I have no idea if this problem will come back when I get to play Exceed Gear, but that remains to be seen. I can navigate Gitadora and IIDX rather easily, I'm just terrible at those games. Either way, I do wish there were more of these games with English language options. Not knowing what you're doing when you're there kinda sucks.


When I see this kind of statement, I think the following:
>I don't like this weeb shit in my *rhythm game*.
I don't know if it's a meme or not, but when I see someone make a statement that gives those vibes, I genuinely want to tell them to pick a struggle. Not to say you must like songs like those, but if their mere existence dampens your enjoyment of rhythm games, then best of luck to you.

You are absolutely right. That's heavily controversial. It's a Pandora's Box that stays sealed for a reason. Every person remotely invested in DDR or any rhythm game could make a list of songs the game "could live without" for any reason(s), and two things would be true:
1. Whether just a few songs or full DDRMAX'd, there would be heavy backlash for choosing to niche a niche.
2. Every list would be wrong.
And yes, I include myself if I made a list.
Maybe we need that Favorites setting from DDR II so that we can always have just the songs we like visible to us on any given play.

This would be a happier medium, and it could be something implemented if DDR ever gets edit mode.

Honestly, being able to unlock songs was something I found appealing in most rhythm games. It's what kept me coming back to games like crossbeats REV. and Groove Coaster. Although, I will agree it has become severely stale across the board. The last interesting unlock system I can recall as far as Bemani games was Reflec Beat having you play certain songs to find new ones. (Ex. VENUS song + song w/Rose effect = Far Away unlocked)

Original statement: I miss Mission Mode.

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If I get time this weekend I'll post a list of what songs would remain if I culled DDR's songlist to under 500 songs (at maximum) and watch the rage posts roll in.

Also:
-- CS DDR partially died in the U.S. because it was too fragmented -- they should have stuck with one multi-console release instead of three different series running simultaneously.
-- ITG 1 and 2's lower difficulty charts aren't bad. They get their reputation because most people have downloaded the arcade-inaccurate files that were floating around until recently (which removes all rolls, modifies a lot of the lower level charts, and adds in some new CSP charts) that for whatever reason are significantly worse.
-- I don't think this is a dead forum.

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ITG got its reputation from people playing on actual ITG2 machines back when it was a new game. Most of the Hard difficulty charts kept you facing one way the entire time and they rarely used anything beyond 8th notes. That team still charts like this today, look at Sky High in StepManiaX. All the rhythms are in the hardest charts and the one below that loses everything that made the DDR version so memorable. It made the Marathons using them easier to keep up with but outside of that they’re boring. I don’t know why ITG2 ended up like that either, as ITG1 actually has some really good Hard charts. There’s a reason once r21 and hacking became a thing the ITG2 charts died a silent death.

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Unlocking songs is wayyyy more fun in home rhythm games than arcade ones. An arcade exclusive game having irritating unlock conditions is just the worst.

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I think there are good Hard charts in both games; you're right that you end up facing left or right for long periods of time, but most of the charts are rhythmically interesting and there are more crossovers than they're given credit for. In essence, you trade off more dynamic movement for more interesting rhythmic variety and fewer double-steps. I don't think every chart is a winner but compared to DDR charts at the time, I think there's some cool experimentation on the lower levels that we didn't see as much until SuperNOVA.

The doubles charts in ITG are trash, though, and I agree with you about StepManiaX (although they've gotten a little better).

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I agree, I always enjoyed unlocking songs in the DDR CS games. I remember when I first got a taste of an unlocking system in the arcade releases (I’m talking about IIDX now) and I was just confused and annoyed. Though at the same time, using BISTROVER as an example now since it’s the current installment, I don’t pay much attention to them, anyway. Outside of not caring for the typical, tedious grind you have to go through, there ends up only being 1 or 2 unlockable songs I actually like.

Don't know how I missed this one, but big agree. Songs like that SDVX remix of Vampire Killer, Twinbee Generation X and the various Gradius remixes that have been in Bemani games are all awesome, and it's not like Konami doesn't have an infinite supply of games old and new to use for them for as long as they please.

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If I'm paying full price for my game I want everything available to me, within reason. This isn't some RPG or grand adventure with rewards waiting for you at the end, it's a rhythm game. Yes, I'm going to end up playing 1000+ songs eventually on a lot of them, but it would be swell to have the songs I want from the start because I hate sitting through easy stuff to get to the good stuff and there are too many rhythm games that do that to the player. On the flip side, if you don't want the opposite either or you end up with people mocking your game's final unlock like DDRMAX US. So why not just give at least 99% of the content up front and maybe just have the boss songs as unlocks?

Now for arcades, unlocks can bring hype as long as they're machine unlocks and not profile unlocks. I think most of this board got into these games after Extreme was already fully unlocked, but waiting for the unlocks was fun. Seeing someone unlock Paranoia Survivor Max for their final stage and not knowing what the other charts looked like built hype. There was excitement behind the ITG2 unlock codes as they released as well.

ITG double charts were great, I loved playing those. Basically everything 7 through 11 was really good. Some standouts to me where Hardcore Symphony, Habanera 1, Bend Your Mind, While Tha Rekkid Spins, Infection, Spin Chicken, Wake Up, and I Think I Like That Sound, all on Expert. Like 99% of my time with ITG was spent on Doubles or in Marathons by mid 2005 because I was so unimpressed with the main game on Singles, but Marathons and Doubles were great.

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The unlock conditions are the worst in arcade because Konami isn't doing very well financially(The pandemic really didn't help them either), and considering Bemani and a few other business ventures are literally one of the very few things left that are profitable to Konami and the only way they make money from Bemani is for players to keep grinding for the content, it's spread out so thin for very little songs for each round of events, it's incentive to wanna keep throwing money in the machine for those songs even though content is small and sometimes disappointing. Same reason why Konami is charging now for CS Bemani games on the e-cloud monthly. Konami is basically trying everything and every way can to scrounge up enough profits from it's playerbase who dedicate to it's rhythm games and other ventures pretty much. Sometimes people forget that Konami is a business to the CEO, their CEO only cares about profits, he's not a gamer, and regardless about how players feel about how they conduct how the games work, he's gonna do whatever it takes to make money for the company, and if it means shafting the unlock systems in a way where he can make the most money and drag things out for little gain to the players, then so be it. I don't like the way the company conducts itself, I wish it would change, but there's not much I can do.

Disappointing to hear, but at the point a company can only survive by squeezing as hard as it can for people who treat their games like a second job, I'll be happier when it goes under. I imagine their pachinko/pachislots aren't doing very well during the pandemic for much the same reason their arcade game profits have dipped, and those are something Konami can't afford to lose either.

Maybe that's why SDVX and DDR Ultimate Mobile never came out, because IIDX Ultimate Mobile was a financial failure and they just decided to hit the killswitch on the risk.

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DDR mobile probably got canned because they tried mobile DDR numerous times and they all failed. SDVX on the other hand I'm not sure. I did hear from sources that both are on hold due to lack of resources.

I find most DDR charts a lot more interesting and fun than most tournament played ITG charts I've seen. Syncing your notes to as many sounds as possible in the song, and making it more obvious what you're supposed to do with your feet, doesn't necessarily equal a good, fun or interesting chart, and in my opinion tends to make charts more linear, uninspired and boring.

I like charts that give you room to mix your footing up without tripping you up for the next notes, and charts with purposely understepped areas that allow you to actually enjoy the song and listen for little details yourself, while making you feel like you're dancing to it. Understepping isn't always a bad thing, and sometimes less is more. Charts should complement music, not just follow it down to a T.

Also, I find it weird that people complain about DDR's gimmicks (not that I'm always a fan either) but then proceed to recycle the same types of "tech" on multiple ITG charts. It makes your chart stand out less when it's doing the same thing so many other charts are doing, and makes footing feel very forced and restrictive. All it gives me is an "oh it's this again" feeling. I know it's part of the challenge, I just personally find it unenjoyable most of the time.

More dance music and less epic gamer dubstep/EDM/funk please.

Some people like their challenge being focused on physical ability and tricky rhythms rather than purposeful misdirection and obtuse patterns. And if you like understepped stuff that more "compliments" the song, then (sorry Marten) you can always just play the Difficult/Standard/Hard/Whatever's Below The Default Hardest Chart chart.

I don't know why the community really hates the idea of a difficulty labeled "expert" being directed towards experts, and I'll always believe that prominent ITG charters have a lot more creativity when it comes to creating charts with just four panels than whoever the fuck writes charts for current DDR most of the time. Just one glance at what got chosen for something like ECFA 2021 proves that much.

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THANK YOU.

Because I'm sure quite a few of you would be pretty fucking pissed if Konami catered to me and capped Expert and Challenge at 11 because that's all I can really do without being completely done for the day. Nah, I play like half my sets on Difficult right now. It's a novel concept, I know. But the same people that cry about not being able to pass an Expert chart are the same people who cry that Bloodborne doesn't have an easy mode, and hey you aren't entitled to beating that either.

Also, there are no prominent ITG charters. ITG was an actual game. All that's popular in that community now is Stepmania. ITG2 cabs are just Stepmania machines. Their game is Stepmania. And there is nothing wrong with that, I hope they really enjoy their Stepmania, but they're playing the same game I am playing at home, just different songs.

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The easier charts in community ITG simfiles still tend to have very obvious, linear and forgettable footing, again in my honest opinion and from what I've seen in tournament packs such as ECFA. A majority of charts just beg to be played alternating between your left and right feet the whole way through, and when they don't it's usually some tech that almost always forces you to have very specific footing to play optimally.

Again I know it's part of the challenge but I like when a chart also gives the player room to be creative with the way they play as well, with cleverly laid out breaks, gaps or jumps that "reset" your footing so the chart doesn't punish you for varying your footing every now and then. I like having various patterns that can be hit more than one way while still feeling "right" and not affecting your timing or MA. It lets you mix it up every time you play while maintaining good MA.

It's really hard to do that in community ITG charts because the charts are often laid out in such an obvious and linear way that's very hard to break out of. Nothing ever feels like you chose to step it that way, and when it does it just means you basically fucked up and the chart punishes you for it or it just feels very uncomfortable. It doesn't have to do with the charts being too hard, just being too restricted and forced. It's really hard to explain but this is where DDR sort of just feels more enjoyable for me outside of the more offensive gimmicky stuff. The charts feel like they have more personality and it makes them much more memorable.

Aside from that, I like when a chart has its own interesting patterns that almost makes them like an additional instrument in the song. The "Challenge" charts in 4thMIX PLUS are an example, with songs like Operator, Xanadu and My Fire getting really creative with rhythms without really following any particular part of the song that closely. ITG officials do this a lot as well.

Controversial opinion: ITG, DDR and stepmania are THE SAME GAME. Like people on this forum and virtually any dance community will bicker about the minute differences between the games but like, you hit 4 arrows and get judged on timing. The fact that most people who don't understand the difference lump them (and even PIU) under DDR is further indication that they are like more or less the same thing to people who don't understand any better.

Regarding your first opinion on the usage of ITG, I think most people who claim they play or chart "ITG" today refer to the "Post-ITG"/stepmania scene. It's really more a historical term than anything else. I guess people like to form factions and diss each other about the better game but you'll always have rival factions/fan bases. Also the original ITG charters are actually charting for StepmaniaX now, go figure.