Z-I-v Summer Contest 2020

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Hey everyone! I just wanted to pop in with a quick message.

This may be partly my fault for mentioning the importance of giving feedback, and in general I am glad some of you are expressing your opinions and attempting to help out your fellow competitors. However so far in our inaugural month there have been a few issues that have been cropping up that I do want to address.

First, I want to stress that it is preferable that feedback is given near the end of the week, perhaps even after the results have been announced. I understand it's exciting to get that rush from telling others your opinion on something and sometimes we get so excited that we need to tell them as soon as possible, but it's extremely important that everyone goes into each week with a clean slate and an open mind. If someone is looking on here a day after voting starts and already sees the files people like or dislike before they've even started playing through them, there's a chance of that affecting your mindset. I don't want any preconceived notions or peer pressure changing your judgement, so the best thing to do is to reserve public comments until after voting has ended. Of course, barring me pulling up to your house and shutting your internet off, I can't force you to do this, but like I've said before it's highly encouraged to wait until the end of the week to give feedback.

The other point I wanted to make is about the content of the feedback. Being that everyone has their own unique preferences when it comes to charting, there will always be some form of subjectivity when it comes to detailing what you like or dislike about a file. I get that feedback shouldn't just be everyone patting themselves on the back and saying how much they loved everything, otherwise nothing would ever improve, so critique, while sometimes harsh, shouldn't be taken personally. However something that is in no way beneficial is any hostility or antagonism towards aspects tangentially related to the chart itself. If your feedback doesn't pertain to your thoughts on the chart itself or how one can improve their charting, which is the proper use for feedback, then you're missing the point. Imagine taking a test in school, but the teacher takes points off for the outfit you were wearing that day, or what type of pencil you were using, or how much K-Pop you listen to, etc. Just like how I said not to take it personal, it's also up to everyone here not to make it personal either. Feedback should be done with an open mind and should be free of any personal attacks.

All it takes really is to reflect for a minute on the purpose of what you've written before making your opinion known, which I would say is applicable to the Internet as whole. We're operating under the good faith that we're all here for friendly competition that is fair for everyone, and of course to play some great stepfiles. Thanks for listening, I'll let you get back to whatever you were doing.

*edit* This post is mostly pertaining to public criticism. If you want to share your thoughts about the weeks files with others before the final results are made public, I would suggest posting here simply that you do have criticism, and to request for anyone who wants your feedback privately to do it through PM. You can also request feedback on your own file and people can PM you.

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It looked weird to me that not a lot of people were discussing the files during the first weeks, now I see it happening and it's disencouraged. what the hell lmao

I think a way bigger issue with the way voting works is that the contestants are the ones voting. It's not hard to imagine a scenario in which, if someone wants to win or at least score decently, that person doesn't give a lot of points to what's likely to be a favorite, which is easy to do because the votes are just points without any writing involved. I don't have to justify why I blatantly ignored what would be generally regarded as a good file, having so many points to distribute. If you know about making stepcharts then you can tell what's likely to be a popular file. Public opinion isn't gonna change your perspective that much there.

If you're worried about people voting as cleanly as possible, maybe people should just vote on their opposite group. Makes a lot more sense to me.

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A suggestion isn't a rule is it?

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Most people see “100 jumps” and see a cliff impossible to scale. I saw “100 jumps” and I thought, “How far can I take this without making the chart weird?” . . . and I created a chart containing 192 Jumps.

But Haley, how is this related to aviation?
Oh, you see, TL;DR: a “G6” is a luxury plane.

When they were writing the song, they wanted to rhyme with “Three 6”, so they decided to reference the Gulfstream IV, which is a luxury plane from Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation. It’s usually just called the “G4”, so they decided that a “G6” would be a better, even flyer plane. Then, by the time the song came out, Gulfstream released the Gulfstream 600 series (G600, G650, and G650ER), which are called “G6” for short, so they pretended to have known about it all along.

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Something I should mention.
I saw that people were mad about the last stop in Yeah Oh Ahhh Oh. I totally understand that a freeze would have been better, but I really didn't want do it, considering just how long that freeze would have been... Besides, the last hit would have been a lot harder to sync that way. Really what I should have done is given a measure gap between the freeze and the final jump instead of having it be *right there* and making players have to Tohoku EVOLVED it. So yeah, sorry about that one. I'll make sure to think more clearly about those kinds of long stops the next time I use them.

BTW, new chart for this week coming in a couple hours. Just gotta get doubles done... and ? Yeah, I don't usually do it, but I thought this one should have a Beginner chart. It's a fun song, but I've got friends who would love to play this one in DDR, and would possibly have trouble doing well on my chart. I might have overstepped this a little, we'll see... but at least it's fun to play, I think.

Be back in a bit! Sorry if I rambled on too much here...

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By the way, here's my feedback towards the files I voted for last week:



If you want feedback and your file isn't in this list, feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to provide it for you!

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I have responded to most of this in in the previous critics.

I own a DDR machine and have friends play on it. Most of the people I play with do not do heavy mode. The Standard and below are made for them.


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Concerning critics:

I personally like seeing the critics for my file the week of. It helps for improving that week's new song. However, seeing that the critics I have gotten have the same root feelings I cannot tell if this was lingering feelings from the first critic or if everyone just felt the exact same way.

I feel that if someone wants to critic files that they could post when they have their reviews done and to have people PM them for their file's review. Then release the whole group review when the week is over.

I don't know how many people are using the critics to vote. I am not. I go in not knowing who did what song and play them straight. -- I like to compare what I voted for to what everyone else voted for.

Just my thoughts.

I felt the same way, idk how to feel with the critics, it's like I know they're not doing it to be mean or hateful but sometimes it feels like they just want people to do simfiles the same way they do theirs, we are all step artist, artist being they key word. Your interpretation of the song is what makes you different, I see a lot of people here saying, oh it feels unorganized, oh you should've put 2 more steps there, oh I feel like is overstepped, oh I don't like the gimmicks, etc etc, but guess what, that's the way that person wanted to make the chart, everybody have their own style. you wouldn't go to a painter and tell him, oh you should've have 3 more strokes and a different color there, because that's how they wanted it paint it, if we are judging a simfile by the hardest chart only, I feel like it should be just that difficult only, with no graphics or anything , just the song and the chart, at least for the week and then they can add the rest later, cuz I feel that sometimes people will judge a simfile based on the graphics or if they have all difficulties or not and it shouldn't be that way. Those are my thoughts.

In regards of the competition I'll have to tap out because I started working and it's very hard for me to create a file and also play all of this files and make a fair judging, and also I feel like I have lost my magic touch with editing, I've been doing files since 2003 and stopped in 2014, and just got back editing because of the quarantine , but I don't feel as confident as I used to feel before and the critics made me feel even more uncertain, even thou I know it's based on personal opinions.

So Good luck to everyone.

This is actually my first time uploading simfiles and competing, because even thou I have 2,000+ simfiles during all this years I have never uploaded any. I was working on a quarantine pack that I hope I can finish if I get my magic touch back again and time of course 😁

I'll admit that the criticisms had a hand in my vote for this week. I was pretty excited to play ledgamer's file, and I wasn't disappointed. I'll leave it at that so VanEden doesn't jump all over me for "influencing" others' votes.

That said, I have seen the feedback for my file
I'm kind of disappointed that my simfile isn't generating much buzz. They do say it's okay and that the flow is good, but they don't offer much on how I could improve it save one or two things. It kind of feels apathetic, and that's never a good sign for anyone. Still, thanks for the criticisms. It just means I have to get more creative when trying to work on a difficult chart.

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Sad to see a veteran stepper go! This is also my first time sharing and competing and I do empathize with your struggle. But it's part of the fun to see what others have to say about our steps. Just to echo VanEden's post, maybe it's better to dissociate yourself with your works or even just the criticism. Have some confidence in yourself!

Anyways, I encourage you to continue charting and sharing your steps, even if it's not for a competition like this one.

Quality over quantity.

@Everyone
Sorry you don't like my opinions. I guess I won't post them anymore.

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I would like to see opinions about the various simfiles, but I think they should either be PMed to the charter or only released after the voting for the week is finished so voters don't get influenced to vote for a certain simfile.

also could I get some opinions about the simfiles I submitted please?

You could always talk about them on Discord. ;)

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Lurking in here for nostalgia's sake and things seem a bit...tense, for the lack of a better word. It's been a minute since I've actually posted any file or comment on a thread, but if I may give a couple words of advice which will apply to veterans I've competed with, as well as people whose names I am just reading (in other words, this is directed at no one in particular):

There are a few keys to doing well in a simfile contest on ZIv. The first key took me about a year or so to really get a handle on and that is basically...the basics. I'm talking about doublesteps, symmetry, use of patterns. Are you using crossovers and other footwork gimmicks to keep things interesting? Are you facing a certain direction too much for too long in some sections of your charts? Do your steps have the player switching from what foot to another as to avoid doublesteps, and if not, are your doublesteps reasonable enough that they don't disrupt the flow of your chart? These were all questions I had to be constantly asking myself for so long in order to make a halfway decent chart; I didn't even start scoring in these competitions until I asked myself these questions. If there's one thing I took away from trying to do well in these contests, it's that these questions are key to making something that people are at least willing to play through.

Another key to these competitions is competing for fun. These contests don't matter for anything but brownie points, and that's coming from someone who won TOI back in who-knows-when (seriously I don't even remember what year I won LMAO). Sure it's cool in the moment if you do well, but I had always seen these contests as an opportunity to make files that *I* wanted to play. For some people, that means making files that evoke a sense of nostalgia for classic DDR. For others, it's about making files that test players physical limits. Some people (like myself, I would like to believe) go back and forth between these philosophies (which from what I remember, were the two dominant camps people fell into; not sure if that's how things are now). The fact of the matter is that you are never going to satisfy everyone with a file, so your best bet is to make something for yourself so you'll at least have that to enjoy, even if you don't do well scorewise. Also, people can tell if you had fun making your files; if you're only making a simfile for the sake of a consistent submission record, you will only grow more frustrated with the process of competing. So if you're not already, do yourself a favor and focus on reflecting what makes Stepmania fun for *you* and channel that into your files.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as too preachy. It was just kinda sad to see many people getting hung up on the scores because I remember being in that position in my first contest in 2012, but again, I got out of that pattern of "poor performances" by asking questions and applying technical feedback as best as I could. After that, it simply became a matter of taste; I made plenty of files that I knew wouldn't be people's cup of tea, but producing files I wanted to play made the effort I put into the 100+ files I've made worth it. That's all I've got to say though, hopefully that is able to lift someone's spirits, and if not then...whoops.

That said, I so so SO badly wish I could participate and check out these files, especially from the new kids on the block, but alas, my ass just HAD to replace my laptop with a Mac with Catalina, making SM impossible for me to use. While I try to figure out a work-around for that, if anyone would like feedback on their files and has a video upload of the gameplay, I might be willing to check out what you've got to offer.

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I apologize if my feedback in particular is coming off poorly to people. As I've stated before, this is the first contest that I'm seriously sitting down and submitting files for despite having spent as long on this site as I have - as such, it's also my first time sitting down and writing (or attempting to write) feedback on stuff. I'm still trying to find my footing in both of these things. It isn't my intention to come off as apathetic, but I understand where that's coming from. If I continue to do reviews, I'll try my best to give more detail on them going forward.

I was really worried about this theme, so I decided to kind of just go all in and work hard to make something that is as good as it can be and very complete.

I had to use a VPN and a Japanese credit card portal in order to be able to purchase the mp3 needed to make this stepfile because the full version is very rare and not included in any torrents. There are videos from past DDR games used for the bg. There are doubles steps in all of the oldschool DDR-appropriate difficulties, but they are a bit harder than I wish they were, oh well. Just so you guys know what my life is.

The trick/standard/medium steps are fun on singles, please try them out!

I am open to feedback in PMs or on Discord if you have any.

Anyway enjoy.

I think having charts on YT generally makes receiving feedback more likely since people can just take a quick look instead of having to start up StepMania. Thought that I would once again mention that if anyone wants videos of their charts on YouTube, feel free to PM me.

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https://www.strawpoll.me/20435261

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