DanceDanceRevolution (PS3 & Xbox 360) (International)

Hold up there a moment. You do know that the Wii is stronger than the PS2 and even the Xbox right? I think it's more of the matter that Konami is just too lazy to get the real tracks. Though they did try harder in HP2.

Japanese players like it when Konami brings their favorite songs from one BEMANI series over to DDR. EXTREME was a nod to the fans who had probably been clamoring to get some or all of those songs onto DDR for a while then. I don't see crossovers as lazy though, because it exposes players to music they most likely would not have heard and then they see where the music came from and get introduced to a whole new series of games. It's how I got into beatmania. It's also a way to revive songs on a now dead series of games that new players will probably never see like DanceManiaX and ParaParaParadise. I would call it efficient of Konami to reuse what they already have that way.

And for the record, crossovers in DDR started with 2ndMIX and the LINK VERSION of it that tied into the first BeatmaniaIIDX games (CLUB VERSiON and CLUB VERSiON substream). DDR 3rdMIX was the first to have beatmania music without needing to be attached to a IIDX machine, 4thMIX had an entire category of music of repeat and new IIDX songs, 5thMIX had new crossovers from DanceManiaX and IIDX. DDRMAX was the only mix in the mainstream series that broke this tradition, as it was considered a reboot of the series. DDRMAX2 again had IIDX songs. What made EXTREME different was that it did the same thing with intention, and took in songs from many different series (beatmania, IIDX, III, pop'n music, DanceManiaX, GUITARFREAKS, DRUMMANIA, KEYBOARDMANIA, Mambo A Go Go (?)), it was like a tribute to Bemani itself. More like it began the 'everything is fair game' trend for DDR, not just songs from its sister series beatmania.


Spec-wise it isn't. The Wii is an overclocked GameCube with a full-sized DVD drive. That's the biggest difference in power for it, games are bigger and more detailed mostly due to the fact that you can fit more onto a game disc. It just looks more powerful because Nintendo is uncontested in getting the most performance out of the least hardware. Also, the PS2 out shoots the original Xbox by quite a bit. Halo 2 hit the ceiling with what the console could do. They had to do a lot of dirty hacking and visual tricks to pull it off and the game remains visibly glitchy. Metal Gear Solid 3, which looked far more impressive visually and was much more expansive, didn't even use 100% of the PS2's power to pull it off... and then video game awards went and voted Metroid Prime as having the best graphics.

Call it what you want, but EXTREME and SuperNOVA were crossover-laden because they didn't have enough in-house support. EXTREME especially; it's nice you think its song list is a BEMANI tribute, but it was ultimately a crutch for a dying game. DDRMAX2, the preceding game, had a whopping 3 crossovers, then EXTREME comes along and coughs up over 30 of the bastards. It's nice promotion of other games yes, but lot of these crossovers had absolutely no place in the game. DDR was a great place to find gem dance tracks, but it turned into a great way to find music that has no place on a dance floor. DDR took a huge rest after EXTREME because they didn't have the musical support required to keep it alive on crossovers only. Even its return was plagued by crossovers, but SuperNOVA2 really brought us back up to how a game should be. Could you imagine if 50% of the SIRIUS song list were songs you've already played on other games? It'd be cute for a few days but would quickly wear thin. Well placed crossovers add a lot, don't get me wrong, the X ones are well chosen and really help the song list along. However, when you have entire folders dedicated to the series of crossover, that's excessive.

I have no problem with songs being reworked for DDR; this works out fine and shows they're thinking about how the song will fit on DDR. But when they throw Under the Sky there, cut off all its corners, and try to pass it off as a new offering, it's just them scrambling for material.

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I was under the impression that there were only a few crossovers on X so that Konami could show the series doesn't need crossovers to be good.

Aeron: To clarify, I didn't say that crossovers -began- in Extreme; just that the focus of the tracklist shot primarily in that direction. Consider that there are less than 10 new Dancemania-developed songs on the mix! Granted, CLUB version kind of fits, but it was designed specifically as a link mode for DDR and IIDX, much the way GitaDora works. Given how much GitaDora has improved in that department, it wouldn't be unrealistic to see that being possible NOW; but the DDR-synching in arcades back then was terrible!

The 2nd Mix engine was almost purely visual, save for announcer comments and a couple of sound effects (clearing/failing, for instance). The musical part was actual CD tracks, or in case of CLUB VERSION; entirely controlled within IIDX, and then networked to the DDR speaker system. It wasn't uncommon for stepcharts to become an entire 1/8-note off, actually! The newer engines/systems could and would totally work, however; but unless you want IIDX charts in DDR games, or stepcharts in Rock Revolution (I would LOVE that, btw)...
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In fact, I don't know if it exists still, but look up "Diet Diet Revolution;" it was the first DDR simulator, and based on the 2ndMix engine. No such things as "BPM changes," all notes were 1/16 at their deepest (MDS files = stepcharts), and it only supported WAV files or CDDA tracks... not even MP3's or OGGs! Even the "Versus" charts had to be coded seperately from the Singles/Doubles! The arrows were always 1x, and always Flat. You could Hidden/Sudden/Stealth, you could Left/Right/Mirror/Shuffle, and you could use Little. That's IT. Didn't even support Nonstop mode.

THAT was the arcade "DDR 2nd Mix + CLUB VERSION" experience. Good luck "SS'ing" MAKE IT BETTER (So-REAL Mix) like THAT.

Edits and file creation, btw? NOTHING BUT NOTEPAD. (OMG, I sound like Cranky Kong, don't I?)

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That's the problem though, X wasn't good at all. Not by a long shot IMO.

I don't think it was the lack of crossovers though, it was just the new KOs that aren't as good.

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It wasn't good because there were little to no BEMANI artists. Notice that the two confirmed BEMANI contributions (Saber Wing and A Geisha's Dream) are considered by most to be in the top tier of DDR X songs.

Since I grew up on SSR and Dance Dance Revolution (The 1st) that's not really a problem, not even at 35fps. My turn to be cranky, you kids and your 2x and your Solo (Rainbow) mods and your bar raping... back in the day I played on machines without speed or color mods and honestly no bars even attached to it. We knew how to beat songs like men.

I'm going to stop derailing the thread now.

Damn it...so I am not a man.

first of all, for those that dont know, SSing is FCing the song. 1st and 2nd mix didnt have a grade for all perfects.

second, the first quote was said makes it sound like FCing MIBSRM on x1 flat is hard by todays standards or something, lol.

third, and now to the post i actually quoted, SSR wasnt a feature of 1st mix. actually, the way you said all this makes you a big hypocrite since you needed a code to play maniac on 1st mix, and you're bagging on modern gen players. SSR was 3rd mix, and it was the only way to play on maniac at all, it also required a code. it was 3rd mix songs only, and it introduced maniac doubles. playing 3rd mix normally resulted in the standard 3rd mix set list without maniac charts and vivid was on by default. playing in 2nd mix mode gave you all the second mix songs in the 3rd mix engine, including maniac steps(why they arent available in 3rd mix mode is beyond me), however there was still no maniac double charts(they didnt come around until 4th mix). BTW, saying you play SSR means nothing because you can easily leave out the fact that you use the flat code to turn on vivid. just saying.

if you're going to try and sound old school, at least get the facts straight. oh, and this is coming from one of the old school players, playing x1 no bar doesnt mean squat. its about scores, not lack of mods, and its not just "kids"(clearly meaning new DDR players) using x2 solo. now if you'll excuse me, i have 3 NCs on my road of 2MB no bar score i'm trying to get rid of, so i'm off to the arcade for the evening

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Based on my experience.

One of my friends PFCed SHOOTING STAR in 4thMix

This is his grade. AA

AA is your grade if you PFCed a song
A is your grade if you FC a song
B is your grade if you have a few goods, boos and misses
C is your grade if you have a decent amount of goods, boos, and misses
D is your grade if you fail a song.

Previous DDR games base their score on combos
Recent DDR games base their scores on number of perfects and marvelouses.

IIRC, 4th and 4th+ grading is B is passing with over 50% but not an FC, C is passing with lower than 50% and not an FC(all greats is 50% with an FC BTW, as 4th has no freezes).

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My bad... I guess it's pretty much based on the health gauge.

i meant dance points, not life bar. if a song has 100 steps, 100 perfects is 200 dance points. 100 greats is 100 dance points, since the max for the song is 200 points then all greats is 50%, but all greats is still an FC which is an A. factor in that a good is worth nothing and a miss takes away 8, plus you dont get the 2 points the step was worth you lose 10. so if you get 99 perfects and 1 miss, you got 190 points. 60 perfects, 30 greats, 5 goods and 5 misses your score is 100 dance points out of 200 so thats a C. make one of those goods a great, and its a 101 points which is a B.

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Um... settle down, Mortal Kombat. You act like our conversation was an insult directed at you. I know that SSR wasn't until 3rdMIX, I didn't mean both one in the same. I was refering to Flat arrows (Or not Vivid to be correct to the period). I'm sorry you've taken such offense to my personal history, it's not the dick-wagging contest you've made it out to be. I'll be more careful not to go off-topic with you around.

way to take the internet way too seriously there guy. dick-wagging contest? lol, you must be saying that because i brought up 3 NCs on 2MB. pro tip- i conveniently left out that i have 150+ greats on it, similarly to how i said you could be leaving out that you use the vivid code while playing SSR.

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Amen to that!!!

So anyway, does anyone think that Konami will keep Shock Arrows in this game? Even though DDR Vol. 1 seems to be a "greatest hits" release, it could be possible that they keep in new features, or they may add in another new thing.

They might, or they might not. Considering it's a greatest hits thing with most of the song list likely to consist of old songs ... I'd say about 10% chance of that happening if they decide to put any of the X songs on it.