DDR II & hottest party 5 (Wii) (International)

I'd rather see it as it was...20 licenses and 60 KO's...

It would be easier just to say who was included because the axed list is longer. xP

From nearly 70 pages ago... taking off the spoiler tag because it's not a spoiler at this point:

... which are Mii and Rena.

---

As IIDX has told us, "MAKE IT MAKE IT MONEY", which unfortunately DDR hasn't been doing as of late (at least in the US). 40 licensed songs, no matter who they cover (well, maybe if they had some Vanilla Ice counterparts), is going to be expensive, and 30-40 dollars wouldn't be enough with the volume they're selling at. Plus licenses don't really appeal to all regions, so why focus on 40 US songs that the Japanese don't really recognize? A better strategy would be to have about ten songs specific to each region (US/EU/JP) and that are easy to license (non-singles, lesser known artists, remixes). You'd then have 30 licensed songs, and maybe you would play the others. Have HARD licenses (Conga from DDR universe 3 anyone?) and maybe even have a licensed, console exclusive boss track? It'd be a first, for sure.

I don't mind the peripheral barrier, since the games are starting to become more affordable (this year's edition is fifty bucks, when the standalones of previous years have been 40 dollars.) The entry barrier for GH games was the price (80 bucks for a guitar?); chop it down a few dollars, you've got yourself a deal. And the problem that DDR is starting to have is that it's trying to please two demographics but being mistaken for one: It should appeal to hardcore and casual, but it's being seen as casual because "Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus are in it." Just Dance knows it's a casual title, and markets it as such. As such, no amount of revival songs or DLC will please the "elitist PS2 core gamers", because even if every song they would ever want was in a game, no one would play it because of JB . Plus any marketing would help this game, like even a favorable review or a Hands-on demo. Heck, even a celebrity endorsement by Vanilla Ice during a late night talk show would be enough to drive it into meme-based success.

---

The code just looks like they forgot to remove that from X2 arcade's copypasted coding, and likely wouldn't affect the game all that much anyways; so they focused more on the content that did matter. Remember, EXTREME JP's coding (and Disney Channel Editions, IIRC) contained a complete 1stMix-to-date master tracklist, with all of the four-letter subdirectory code and everything. What was important was getting a playable version out there.

And honestly, I think WE ARE the marketing for the game. No, really. Tapping it back into our local DDR communities and spreading the word that DDR is back to PLAY. X2 arcade here has resulted in a nearly complete resurgance of DDR popularity, and plenty of friends have the Wii. It WILL be making it's way around. Now go outside and get your friends together for a game early next month!

You want more awesome DDR titles like this one?

MAKE IT MAKE MONEY.

---

I was mostly explaining why the game has sold so poorly when you compare it to the likes of Just Dance. I fear that people's love of the series has disillusioned them into what makes a good game and what people expect from a rhythm game. The genre being so niche doesn't help matters and regardless of how hardcore DDR tries to become it will never sell if it doesn't have enough casual appeal.


So basically buy this game or else? What if I don't want to? What if I feel that it isn't my job to buy a game I don't think I'll enjoy purely to be Konami's "marketing"? Why should I support a series by buying a game which has screwed my region over time and time again purely on the promise that it might get better and we might get better games?

I may be a DDR fan, but I won't say I'm perfectly happy with Konami's efforts either. I know that a ton of people love this release, but I'm personally not seeing it; the licence list isn't to my taste and that plays a large part in why I, and also many others, buy games like this.

If Konami really want their games to sell then they need to start taking things more seriously. HP5 is a nice step in the right direction, but it's still lacking a lot of the stuff that would give it broader appeal.

I know that I'm hardly one to talk; I've never made a game, but sometimes I wonder that, if given the same basic budget if I could throw together a game that would do better than Konami's efforts. The entire AC and CS series has been a mess with the AC versions being poorly designed with cabinet and system flaws meaning that barely enyone bothers playing anymore. Time was that the AC games WERE the marketing for the CS releases and the whole CS series was essentially "that awesome game you played in the arcade in the convenience of your own home!", but now that avenue is drying up. Combine that with Konami's TERRIBLE handling of localisation and confusing CS releases and it's no wonder people have just given up on the series.

I may be a fan of the series, and FSM-damn it I WANT it to do well, but I'm not going to blindly defend what a mess it has become. The series always had its flaws, but back then nobody cared as much due to lack of competition, but these days Konami just can't seem to deliver what people really want to see in a rhythm game. No amount of wonderful KO's will excuse this.

---

It doesn't help that exclusive European licences aren't coming back (with the game basically in decline it's not worth paying more for exclusives only one region will get and probably not buy anyway). And with musical taste being what it currently is now (read: shit) we're basically getting what the US mainstream wants with a smattering of 80s/90s tidbits. And sadly, until DDR goes under, that's the way it's going to be. And that's most likely sooner rather than later.

---

I agree with this. I don't think they went through hoops (I'd believe it if they got Pink Turbo, Y&Co. and the rest to allow their songs on this version) to get our favorite X2 AC songs into a CS release, and maybe they were just pulling our leg on the whole "We have no plans to port X2 AC for console versions until there's a blatant, mean, rude, obstructing and in-our-face demand for it."

There's also marketing. Dance Master's may not have sold well, but I'm pretty sure Naoki's "The AIDS Virus" show may have convinced some people to actually pick the game up. Or that daytime talk show appearance where the host talks about bacon after demoing, I think, HP3.

As for the localizations, I don't know what else there is to say aside from the fact that they're better off buying a translation patch if the only viable excuse they can make is the localizations. I don't know how long Europe had to wait for their localized DDR versions with local licenses (as opposed to what you guys are getting nowadays), so I won't make any comparisons mysself.

---

That said though Oni, there have been times where I've felt that just having a localised version of the American games wouldn't have been a bad thing. I personally thought that SuperNOVA and SuperNOVA2 US CS weren't bad and there have been songs perfect for Europe in the US games (any Cascada song, Heaven, etc) that have never featured in European games.

I understand that musical taste greatly varies from person to person, but I don't mind a lot of stuff many games have (I do hate Vanilla Ice and Pitbull though), it's just that HP5 is too casual for the sake of being casual.

SuperNOVA AC pretty much shared the same songlist in each region, but I still felt that it was good.

---

The Spice Girls aren't European? Yaz, The Human League, Goldfrapp, Natasha Bedingfield...

Also DDR II has a curious absence of the Euro tracks from X2 (and to that the J-songs as well). I have this crazy idea that HP5 will trade some of DDR II's default songlist for SUPER EUROBEAT, EVERYTIME WE TOUCH and ETERNITY (and possibly TENSHI). And if/when it hits Japan by whatever name they can dream up, those will be traded for EZ DO DANCE, Be Your Wings, hide-away, etc.

But Aeron, how do you explain the absence of the American songs from X2? Easy, they've already been released in America before. For whatever reason when the console series lapsed in Europe and Japan it (barely) stayed alive in the States.

They had the foresight to make X2's tracklist universal while hitting the major regions specifically with some of the songs. Since console titles have historically had fewer songs due to licensing and storage limitations it makes sense to me that the idea would be to localize those releases with the content already in play. As I pointed out above, a very healthy part of the DDR II licenses are English in origin. Though if my theory is correct those will likely all disappear in exchange for the Euro content.

A more conservative theory is that DDR II will be track for track the same as hottest party 5, and only change if there is a Japanese release.

Most artists have contracts with different record labels in different countries, and sometimes the rights to songs are owned by different publishers in different countries.

DJ Sammy for example, is signed to Universal Records, but the american rights to Heaven are owned by Robbins Entertainment, and the UK rights to the song are owned by Ministry Of Sound. In Japan, it's published by Avex.

To license the song in all 3 ames is far more ellaborate and expensive than just licensing a song that's cheap and recognisable in America for the American game, a song that's cheap and recognisable in the UK for the UK game, etc.

When I say exclusive licences, I don't mean "European artists". I mean "songs which Euro versions get instead of the NA version".

---

Song list wise: (=== means IDENTICAL)

Dancing Stage HOTTEST PARTY === DanceDanceRevolution HOTTEST PARTY
DanceDanceRevolution hottest party 2 === DanceDanceRevolution HOTTEST PARTY 2
DanceDanceRevolution hottest party 3 === DanceDanceRevolution HOTTEST PARTY 3
DanceDanceRevolution hottest party 4 === DanceDanceRevolution
DanceDanceRevolution hottest party 5 === DanceDanceRevolution II ???

I'm not holding my breath, the UK graphics file on DDR II has no exclusive song title cards, just a few changes like "Yaz" -> "Yazoo" and "DanceDanceRevolution" -> "hottest party 4".

So... what would you expect to get? Aside from the European music DDR II has? That's kind of the point, if Europe got exclusives it would have been those songs withheld from the American version and given just to you instead. And it would have pushed the release date of HP5 back to late May. =\

Also, I guess I never posted this, here's the press release for hp5:

http://voltagepr.com/release.asp?i=1007

License list has NO exclusives.


Explain HP1/2/3/4's delays then when the list is exactly the same....

And if you're good at that, explain SN2.

---

...and Al makes a better point than me. The only real difference between these games is the damn title.


How should I know? Bad project management? This would be the first time they've been on the ball about it. If they listened to your complaint about no exclusives that would be the end of that.

Also in deference to an earlier point, you were getting NA exclusives from European artists way back when the Europeans WERE getting a unique licence list. You got SLAM, for God's sake.

Also from mentioning Dancing Stage SuperNOVA PS2, the powers that be have torched a small Amazonian village out of rage.

---

Were none of the Euro-exclusives American songs?

Bad project management, hahahahahahahaha the entire EU DDR has been a piss poor job since Dancing Stage SuperNOVA. Dancing Stage Max was the last good proper one.

I know... and that makes me sad. There was no reason for you guys to not get DDR X and fakeX2. The PlayStation team in Europe just up and quit.