DDR AC vs. CS Timing Windows?

I feel like arcade timing windows are way harsher than they are in CS. I recall being able to AAA PFC 6s and 7s in CS and I've yet to do so in a AC mix. It might be like this because the CS games are made with the $20 plastic pad in mind and they ease the judgement to compensate the pad quality.

---

Yes, that's exactly why.

Also, I just noticed on the original thread I linked that the timing window for "great" is 0.108333 seconds. If you work that out, that comes to 6.5 frames in a 60 fps game. How does this make any sense that the window is six and a half frames?

I thought at least PART of it was to compensate for hardware differences in PS2 vs arcade hardware so far as what the game ran on(not just the pad), or am I mixing that up with ITG and ITGPps2 (of course, even if I was, it is still likely part of the puzzle IMO)

If you apply that DDR EXTREME frame-based data to StepMania, you will feel that the judgment windows are somewhat wider or "too easy" than actual DDR EXTREME judgment windows played on real DDR cab.

I personally tweak that DDR EXTREME frame-based data so that each judgment frames is to be divided by 70 instead of 60. While I have no valid proof for this, this is my best finding that mimic actual DDR judgment timing in current DDR AC games nowadays.

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but in CS, you can adjust the judge difficulty from 1 (Easiest) to 8 (Hardest). Default is set at 4. Wouldn't that mean that you could adjust the CS timing windows so they would be more like the AC timing windows?

I believe those difficulties are related to how quickly the life meter goes down. As far as I know you can't change the sizes of the timing windows, only shift them earlier or later.

---

difficulty setting is also in the arcade games, but they only adjust the life bar difficulty.

---

Well, if you go into the realm of hacking the PS2, then I would say absolutely - I mean, for EX, MAX2, etc at least we have (or had) the late AND early windows, logically, by changing (one? the other? both?), wouldn't that technically be expanding/shrinking (depending on the changes made) the timing windows?

as far as i know nobody ever accomplished that; if someone did, we would've known by now.

---

The timing - for perfect, great, etc, for DDR EXTREME JP at least , has been on the Aaron in Japan forums for probably close to 6-8 years. actually.

Just because it isn't WIDELY known doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

i mean the whole shrinking and expanding the judgement windows. i don't think anyone ever did that.

---

afaik the timing settings under sounds option adjusted all judgments up or down.

Weren't there were patches that made these specific values match the arcade mixes (even if other hardware differences, etc interfered with the effectiveness of said mod) - which would have to do exactly that with these values? I know if you Google it, you can find info on their existence, but any links that would allow you to DL them are long dead.

Bumping this.

^Wild guess: The Marvelous window is 1 frame I think, meaning that the only way to get one is to input the step on that frame exactly. This technically makes the Marvelous window half a frame wide on each side (if you are 0.51 frames early or late, it becomes a Perfect). Then the Great window would be up to six more frames after/before the edge of the Marvelous window.

This would only make sense if all of the timing windows came out to half-frames though. Besides that, I have no clue.

If you press exactly between two different frames in display, it's still the last frame on the display and the judgement appears in the next. My theory is that this is because the game read the exact milliseconds between that input and the specified frame. The game will still measure input in milliseconds, as will any game, which is why there can be timings between frames.

StepMania conveniently uses milliseconds to measure distance between your input and the specified beat offset, which is more conventional. DanceDanceRevolution, however, uses the first measure of a song to speed up the bpm under the hood, until the song is ready to play in time with the frame closest to the song's beat, where is goes back to the song's correct bpm. That is where I assume milliseconds come in to measure your inputs.

not much difference