Will we ever see a 19 or 20?

@Dark Mage : You can show us your Ubertreffen chart if you want.
I think my level caped at 16 or maybe low 17 too.
I have trouble to say my level with x scale because i have to think about ddr type chart.
My level on old scale is 11.5.

NeoRevenG : Yeah i saw some Xepher edit 13' and 14' old scale ^^' I still don't like the song but the ddr chart is weird imo.

If something is too hard, play it in lower difficulty like if it's on .
When someone choose to not play harder stuff than 14', good for them. But it's better to have the choice.
Some people wanna play 17' 19' or 22' maybe.
More you put the limit higher, more people will be better.
But still, if they don't want to play songs above 14', you have many many many choices.

Someone who wants to play "easy" or "not to hard" stuff will always have a lot of charts for him.
Someone who wants to play "hard kick ass stuff" or "push himself into his limits" will almost never have some charts to play (limited to boss songs only and not all of them).

I'm glad that the new boss songs that i saw on X2 seems great. But we need more stuff like that, not only boss songs.

We can think of at least 50 songs (even if you take the X arcade songlist only) on ddr who can have 15'/15'+ chart without being dumb.

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I like how everybody's been drawing comparisons to ITG, but there's no mention of Pump charts in this entire thread. (yes I know five targets isn't four targets, but hey)

Pump charts (after NX) are rated on a similar scale to X. If I had to put the PIU Fiesta difficulty scale for singles next to the X difficulty scale, it'd be a bit of a mess because Andamiro is really not that great at accounting for the effects of voltage, but there's roughly a one-to-one correspondence, pegged at 16 X = 15 Fiesta (my level, haha).

Don't even get me started on PIU Fiesta ratings for doubles charts. They're so horribly off most of the time it's almost stochastic. Very Old Couples D15 =/= Wi-Ex-Doc-Va D15 in anyone's book.

The point of all this is, guess what? There are official PIU singles charts that go far past 17's (18 X equivalent) without being totally stupid. The thing that seems to kick the rating up is intense blasts of streamy voltage and/or introduction of bracketing. In Pump's case, though, this is entirely doable. However, officials over about 20' go very much downhill. The highest rated song at the moment is 25 on the Fiesta scale if I remember correctly (FAEP 2-X) and, by golly, I can't even read it, let alone keyboard it, let alone even THINK about padding it.

EDIT: And don't be hating on Xepher S-, that chart is rhythmically perfect the way it is

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Saying if something is too hard then dont play it is weak. I want to play hard stuff just as much as the rest of the people. That doesn't change the fact that songs with massive streams of 16ths because thats what it does in iidx don't exactly make a good chart

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Oh yeah, i see that i didn't get this when you said "no iidx chart", my bad.

What i said still stand. And i agree, 16th streams isn't everything. But some charts like this are fun/good sometimes.

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DEGRS only problem is step PLACEMENT. listen to it with the assist tick on, its freaking perfect.

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doesnt change the fact that its crap

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Maybe about the rythm, it's good. But the random bpm changes were really dumb.
So this + crappy moves = huge sh**.

Also, the song doesn't sound good to me.

So it's freakin perfect in a bad way.

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i think that with a bit of editing and the removal of the BPM changes DEGRS could have been a sweet chart, and still be hard. yes, bolt, DEGRS is crap. that doesnt mean that its impossible to make a good 18+ chart, which was my point.

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Andamiro's ratings are a bit strange. They really only rate it for the single hardest part of the chart. This is why stuff like Panuelito Rojo's Double 18 is an 18... the rest of a chart has it somewhere in the low to mid 15s. I will admit that WXDV's D-15 might be off due to how weird the ending gets.

My theory on the high level ratings now is that 25+ charts are considered "Danger" charts (as a side note, there is apparently a level 26 doubles chart hidden), or things that are just so awful no reasonable person will play them (Chimera NM, for instance). They gave these charts numbers now to distinguish them from the 2-player double chart gimmick songs, such as LIADZ Another Nightmare, and the new Sorceress Elise Double-Performance chart.

I'm kind of going off topic now, but what I mean to say is that Pump ratings can't really be compared to DDR ratings at all based on how they are made. DDR takes into account the whole song, Pump only looks at the hardest individual parts (in general).

The other big issue with comparing to Pump (at least the standard issue [aka not Pro] games) is that Pump has Stage Break turned off by default for the first stage. Naturally, when people are playing really stupid charts, they tend to do it on first stage so they don't risk failing due to Pump's hateful lifebar. In DDR, that lifebar is always there, and at least starts a little more forgiving than Pump. I tend to think of DDR's ratings as more of a guide to just how hard it is to pass the song with lifebar, rather than thinking of it like Pump's ratings which are more of an indicator of how fast I'll have to move at some random point in the song.

As far as a 19 or 20 in DDR... well, if it happens, it won't be pretty. I'm still working on clearing PSMO, which is interesting since I am up to 21s in Pump (stage break off, of course).