[AC] StepManiaX produced by Kyle Ward

I don't understand why the staff members keep coming in here responding in frustration like everyone is saying "lol the game sux" when...most of the feedback has been constructive? I don't even think a lot of people are upset at you guys licensing old DDR songs, it's not like Konami owns the rights to those songs, but I think there are points to be made about some of the graphics and charts going further than 'just an homage' and how you guys can work on that going forward. But the way staff members are coming in here and acting very standoff-ish about criticisms and then putting words in people's mouths is very off-putting.

there certainly is line tetering on homage and copying, i get that what y'all are doing is a homage but y'all are getting a little too excited is all that we're saying, i get that the criticisms may be addressed in a harsh way but there's no reason for the staff to do respond in a harsh way back either, y'all 👏 are 👏 better 👏 than 👏 this

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It wasn't an insult or anything, and in face the artwork is extremely well done and does a lot to mirror the original feeling of those songs - I was just hoping to (jokingly) point out the irony of someone cloning and reproducing the style of specific DDR graphics (in a more direct way) that other homages weren't apparently "allowed". I absolutely applaud his efforts and encourage it, as that's where I got my start in design work too, and I always loved seeing recreations and stuff styled like the things I enjoy!

I'm curious how they are "ripoffs". Music and Police is styled similarly, for absolute certain, but that is because it's also based on the original source material as well and are the graphics people would expect. The same really goes for the others, as so many of them are simple low-resolution originals and are associated with the song, so the style and colors etc of the song are to be expected.

"most of the feedback has been constructive?"

It really hasn't been, unfortunately. The feedback that is though is 100% listened to and we're super happy to have conversations and discussions, but if you scroll back a bit it's pretty nonsensical and boils down to "ddr had these songs you can't", which makes discussion quite a challenge!

I gotta be honest, if this isn't considered toxic then nothing is. There are many people on this site who are very active in the community. I've played sets with random people and they recognize me because of my DDR name which happens to be the same name as my username here. I really don't know what else to say. This is just a terrible mindset and I can't believe that people look at this site and call it toxic while people like you two think you're so much better.

About 75% of the people who I've seen today who have been "defending" SMX have just been putting words into people's mouths and it's very immature.

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I'm not adept at licensing and stuff here nor excel at developing games (I'm aspring to be one actually), but I do think the song selection is rather lackluster IMO. It doesn't really intrigued me. Maybe I'm not the target market for this, but I do want to try when I can. User Interface looks neat, though.

My suggestion is, try to do original stuff more instead of licensing already made stuff more. People will appreciate new stuff. Sure making fans suggestions come true is good, but I think it should go tandem with creating new original stuff. The originals do help shape a rhythm game identity by a lot.

For example, what makes Arcaea what it is? Most people would say something like Fracture Ray, Grievous Lady, Tempestissimo, etc. Not conflict or Halcyon. What makes Pump It Up what it is? Most people would say 1950, 1949, or PARADOXX. Not conflict or the kpops eh maybe kpops also count as what people know from PIU.

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Stepmaniax has a good pad

inb4 this is also controversial here

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I mean, I've been able to find plenty of constructive criticism in the thread including people posting what graphics they consider to be good homages and what graphics people consider to be derivative.

As a member of a development team myself, I understand taking criticism can be tough especially when some people aren't doing it the nicest or the most constructive way, but I do think it's our jobs to be professionals about it and I have found a lot of your posts to be unprofessional and provoking more arguing

His homage is within the context of a DDR fangame. If his fangame had, say, a remix of Butterfly and his graphics were just a modified version of Butterfly's, it'd be fine because that's what Konami would do. If your commercial product that's in the same market as DDR had a remix of Butterfly and you just modified the ones used in DDR, it'd look really bad and uncreative, I shouldn't have to explain why.

They're "ripoffs" because they look too much like DDR's. The Music and Police graphics lean way more on the original Rhythm and Police graphics (especially the color scheme) than they do on referencing Odoru Daisousasen. It could've been done differently as to not lean so much on DDR, like using a different color scheme, using real people instead of silhouettes, giving the text a metal texture, etc. Making it reference the TV series is cool and a fairly obvious thing to do, but it's retreading on too many of Konami's design cues to the point the TV series reference feels secondary.

I don't get this part. This isn't DDR! I don't expect the graphics to look like DDR's! I expect to see something new and cool like what the other overlapping licenses got, not something that I would make if I was making graphics for Flash In The Night (Speed Remix) for my DDR Extreme 3 fangame. That's just my opinion, I don't really know if most of your userbase likes that the graphics are so similar to DDR's, if they like the ham-handed references then keep doing them, but they look like ripoffs to me and it makes the game seem like a cheap nostalgia grab when I don't think that's the impression you want to give.

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Zenius -I- Vanisher users: "omg old DDR licenses were the best, I miss the songs and the cute little graphics if only Konami would bring them backkkkkk"

StepManiaX developers: *adds old DDR licenses, designs graphics and charts as a homage to the DDR appearance*

Zenius -I- Vanisher users: "uhhhh wow copying much? Sweetie stop relying on nostalgia to push your crappy glorified theme and simfile pack ugh"

I knew the users here had a really low average IQ but wow

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not the same users but ok, those who have been requesting old songs are people who whine that so deep is literally not in every ddr game ever under the comment section of a ddr songlist video, those who are giving feedback here are those who moved on from DDR and have been making their own content on SM to fulfill their own wishes

also on twitter:
https://twitter.com/ArrowSpark/status/1286902470334205958

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Yeah, some people like a thing while others don't. Galaxy brain take. Thank you for taking time off from your Mensa meeting to post in the forum for stupid babies.

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So I have a separate account I’m tweeting from now? News to me. Believe what you want, it’s not I. I definitely would like to know who it is though because they aren’t a representative of ours.

Y’all are digging way too deep into this. With everything I’ve said in the past from my personal account that you guys took the liberty of screenshoting, do you think I’d need to resort to a separate account to say what I want?

hahahahahaha

wait... guys we're laughing right... this is all a joke right... haha... ha...



guess i shouldn't be all that surprised that people managed to turn fanservice into drama

it is quite suspicious but ig we'll find out sooner or later

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i just want everyone to be happy goddamn it

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same tbh, I've just been on the sidelines looking at all this and just being

"is it hard to not be elitist once in a while or is that just not a thing any more"

I don't understand the "hurr stepmania pack hurr" view nor the "stepmaniax getting old ddr licenses how original" views at all

I think it's a neat thing that stepmaniax is giving homage to ddr but that doesn't negate the fact that some of you guys are going overboard on the hatred or in the case of the other side of the argument (yes I'm saying argument because this has never been a debate, heated or otherwise) thinking that everyone here is an idiot and should be treated as such.

These types of things are the exact reasons why I'm still ashamed of the entire Rhythm Game Community because it's apparent that some people still haven't gained enough common sense to not stoke the flames of drama just because you don't like an aspect of something that you didn't even like in the first place.

I obviously don't really mean everyone (notallZIVusers)

I've literally only seen SMX drama on this forum. It really seems like y'all won't be satisfied either way. StepManiaX is obviously trying to fill a niche that YOU (Western DDR players who are madly in love pre-Supernova era stuff) created. But now that they've done it, suddenly y'all don't want it???

I really don't know what's up with the 16 year old tryhards on this site

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If they really wanted to fill a niche with Stepmania-X, maybe they should follow up with some more affordable options like how Konami used to release versions of DDR for game consoles? Or are they not allowed to do that in the same way they aren't allowed to sell to major arcade chains?

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And I can definitely agree with that. The devs for StepManiaX know their core audience and are doing something to bring more people in who want those old songs knowing that there's no way in hell that they're being added back to mainline DDR. It's pretty disappointing to see that some people just think that it's an act of desperation when really it's just paying homage to one of the games that inspired multiple things in the rhythm game community

Nothing is gonna change my opinion that Stepmaniax is derivative and unoriginal and that doesn't matter because I wasn't going to buy it anyway. The input I gave is that the developers are making fun of Konami, while throwing their old content as us pretending it's new and original. I think that's a really weird way to get fans of classic DDR to like your product. On top of being snide, the "revived" content is content we can play on the old DDR games we already have. There's not much new about it. To act like this is some kind of inflammatory remark and opinion is a stretch. There were probably 2 users who could've been originally construed as rude, and then a member of the team posted screenshots to twitter, made fun of them with other twitter users, which in turn invited a bunch of smx fans to come to ziv and talk about how stupid and toxic we are (hint: probably just as stupid and toxic as the rest of the rhythm game community, and any fandom culture on the internet at all. It's all dumb and dramatic!) The issue is hardly even about DDR plagiarism anymore, and people's genuine feedback and points are just being ignored in favor of developers and their friends fanning the flames.

BTW, the fact that like, 17 different users have to explain the difference between a free Stepmania fan game passion project vs a retail product and how they are held to different standards... it's worms for brains.