Opinions about DDR stepcharts

Earlier today I played Max 300 and I saw that it had no crossovers. The steps also worked out well and the turning was intuitive.

However, now when I look at files like Valkyrie Dimension challenge, there are weird crossovers, lots of bpm/stop gimmicks, obvious ghost notes (e.g. Trigger, especially the ending), and ambiguous transitions that will turn you into a pretzel if you start on the wrong foot.

I'm interested to see what you guys have to say about DDR's boss song charts. Max 300 was very well stepped and it showed good knowledge of turning and where the player should step -- where did that go?

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Boss song charts should be hard(15-18 , 15+ :cha while still being fun to high level players.
IMO, Good boss charts:
Max 300, Maxx Unlimited, LoM
PS, PSMO
Maxx 300 SMMM
Horatio
Paranoia kstst remix
Possession
Anti Matter +

Bad boss charts:
New Decade
VD
Pluto the First
Pluto Relinquish
Paranoia Hades
DEGRS
Paranoia Revolution

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Take a look at the chart for Paranoia Revolution and try to imagine not doublestepping at any point and maintaining an even pace AND doing the crossovers perfectly at 360 bpm. It seems incredibly awkward and pretty damn annoying. Stuff like that drives me up the wall, it makes for a terrible chart. Like you noted, Valkyrie Dimension goes against all of the conventional charting methods of old boss songs and decided to just be this beast of a chart that threw EVERYTHING at you. If these are 19s, I still dont want to see what konami would do to create a legit 20.

edit: Viper, I hope you see this thread so you can try to defend Paranoia Revolution. Love, Mokou ♥

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What I dislike most about Valkyrie Dimension challenge is that if you want to be able to read the ending or beginning, you have to use a slow speedmod and decipher clustered 16th crossovers for most of the file. It just feels so forced. Some players wind up just playing on something like 3x and bracket mashing the beginning and ending.

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19s are pretty horrendous in terms of boss chart "enjoyableness" (if there was such a word). Possession Double Challenge is the closest thing to an enjoyable 19 that I can think of, but even then those stretches and patterns at the end are downright evil. Most things up to 18 with some exceptions are all right. Max 300 was fairly simple and straightforward as a boss song by today's standards but they had to keep ramping up the challenge since it because too easy to be some kind of "supreme challenge". Don't get me wrong, Max 300 is the most played song on the eAmuse network from any mix Extreme or previous.

One thing that plays a factor is the fact the target audience (Japanese) have no problems with crossovers and BPM changes and as a challenge, CHAOS on SN1 was quite exciting to the locals as a test of memorization. This all falls apart at the higher difficulties (e.g. 19s) but in general I have noticed many "boss" charts tend to incorporate those elements as opposed to more stream or stamina based challenges, though there are some (e.g. Anti-Matter)

I personally find most 16s and 17s good recent "boss level" material. Don't like MAXX at all, though.

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I've found them hit or miss all the way up the difficulty ladder (I assume boss songs to be 15+).

Sometimes, crossovers really work well, but sometimes, PRevo happens and I couldn't really see that being truly fun to a lot of people. While I prefer stream/stamina charts, and Possession and Anti-Matter were a great start for them, I do enjoy some of the more twisty things as long as the turns make sense (for example, I like Tohoku Evolved quite a bit, especially the chart).

Though I think a ~230 BPM stream chart would be awesome to up the bar from 888.

On another note, I do like that Konami is trying to be interesting with some of their charts - the random jump in Tohoku, the use of the stop runs in Go For the Top, etc, even if the charts don't work out all that well.

Side note: Is it standard that you can change the speed mod via the arrow buttons mid song? A song where you basically have to do that, but you're given in a really long freeze to do so could be fun (but maybe that's just because I love dumb gimmicky things).

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I respect your opinion, but in my perspective, New Decade is probably one of the most innovative boss charts I have ever seen. It pushes your mental and physical limits to a brand new level, especially that chaotic 200BPM run at the end. <3

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Are you being sarcastic...

Is there a problem, sir?

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inb4 people trying to change others' opinions and get mad

no seriously though, with all the chaos happening, I like New Decade .


hee hee


you can only change your speed mod for a short time in the beginning of the song. the only thing you can manipulate freely mid-song is the Hid+/Sud+ shutter (then again this is only on new widescreen cabs).

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Can you really do that?

Also, on-topic, I feel like you would hit a wall, when trying to make no-gimmick, "logical" stepcharts like Max 300 harder, i.e. to around 18-19 level. My personal take is that you can only make a stepchart like that so hard, before having to introduce gimmicks to up the difficulty. Even when it's not quite to that difficulty, I guess they've been trying to introduce some variety.

Then again, I might not know what I'm talking about, since I can barely pass 16s.

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I could have sworn I saw someone changing something mid-song on a video - let me see if I can find it. (I'm probably wrong though, my apologies in advance.)

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Nah, you can't. You can only do that in the beginning when the left/right arrow is lit up. What you're seeing is most probably someone who turned off the Sud+ shutter mid-song (check RIN-GO!'s Valkyrie dimension video or BROSONI.'s DEGRS video).

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Oh, that's what that was. Never knew you could change that once you start.

Well now I want a chart where you can do that. :P

To make a more relevant point, it seems like the post PRevo X3 boss stuff seems pretty solid. Those and most of the X2 boss charts, in my opinion, have been the best since the Max era.

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I like how a thread entitled "DDR Stepcharts" is only centered on about 5% of the stepcharts DDR has.

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Depends what our measure of a "good" or "bad" boss chart are. Like Aaron said, while a lot of people in the West tend to dislike anything with BPM gimmicks or pauses, it's a different story in Japan. In terms of personal fun factor, yeah, most of the 18's don't really do it for me. Though I think Tohoku EVOLVED is really well done. I definitely feel that KONAMI is getting better at these charts; comparing the 18's that came out of SuperNOVA, or even X, with the 18's in X3, and for me it's no contest that I'd rather play the X3 18's.

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please , konami pretty much hasnt made a decent expert step chart since the days of Supernova. the shitty songs along with even worse step charts make up for a terrible game altogether. just go back to playing good ol' ITG. best expert charts around. STILL ARE !

any examples to back your argument up?

also most probably by ITG you mean r21 and by r21 you mean custom simfiles.

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It's like the entire DDR Facebook page has manifested itself as one person.

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you forgot bustin' a few moves on a ~DDR cab~

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