Post #1 · Posted at 2012-02-19 05:51:55am 13.3 years ago
 SparK | |
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So there's this cab near me running DDR extreme but the machine is neglected and like 8 years old. The pads are in bad shape and you really have to stomp if you need it to register. I don't think the owners of this place really care about it anymore and i think i can get them to let me "fix it", as long as what i have to do is simple enough for me to understand 
Well what exactly can i do to the machine to fix it up? i've heard of people just doing small things like tightening some sensors or whatever but i'm not even sure where to start. any ideas?
Well what exactly can i do to the machine to fix it up? i've heard of people just doing small things like tightening some sensors or whatever but i'm not even sure where to start. any ideas?
Post #2 · Posted at 2012-02-19 06:14:49am 13.3 years ago
| Aegis | |
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Sometime you will have to be replacing the sensors...and that costs money.
Post #3 · Posted at 2012-02-19 06:17:28am 13.3 years ago
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Quote: Aegis
Sometime you will have to be replacing the sensors...and that costs money.
Yeah that makes sense... i was hoping there'd be at least some small easy fixes though
Oh well
Post #4 · Posted at 2012-02-19 02:21:32pm 13.3 years ago
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1. Dismantle the arrows:
- Clean the arrows completely. A damp rag will do, mind the decals on the underside as they might be peeling from wear.
- Clean the brackets and screws. Scrub any debris off the brackets and try to brush anything out of the grooves in the screws. If a screw was almost impossible to get off due to stripping, it's best to leave it off. Stage brackets will hold themselves in place with a single screw just fine. If a bracket lost both screws, start rationing from the rest of the stage.
2. Dismantle the sensors:
- Wipe down the sensors themselves GENTLY. especially the wires and connectors. Mishandling old sensors will cause damage, I speak from experience.
* To easily remove the sensor connectors, look for a groove in between the two connectors and insert a flat head screw driver. Firmly apply pressure and twist just slightly. Once there is a gap they will pull apart easily.
- Brush any debris (and there will be) from the sensor cradles and the surrounding area.
3. McGyvering:
- If the plastic and/or padding on the top of the brackets are misaligned, carefully (preferably with a sharp knife) cut and completely remove the plastic and padding (as a single piece if possible), clean the top of the bracket as best you can - cutting off any residue as well, apply double-sided scotch tape to the bracket and firmly reapply the padding.
- If the plastic or both plastic and pad are missing, completely clean off the top of the bracket and replace it with double-sided construction tape LEAVING THE PLASTIC COATING ON. Hardware stores have this and it's pretty cheap, the thickness and durability almost perfectly emulates the original padding. The plastic coating the tape comes with prevents it from sticking to the arrow (which is bad).
- If you know a sensor is completely dead/sticks when you hit it/flutters when activated (also known as the HEAVY to BEGINNER in less than a second glitch)put them back in the machine but leave them unplugged. The sensor being there balances out the pad and since the machine won't ever see it it can now focus on input from sensors that are working.
- If a sensor has frayed wiring and/or has wiring that was poorly taped back together, simply take small bits of masking tape and patch/re-patch the wires. It's common for sensors to misfire or no longer work because exposed wiring is shorting them out. You may bring a sensor back to life doing this.
- If you know a sensor is weak or gives late steps you want to raise it. Business cards and redemption tickets work best. Normally you only want the most subtle raise, so cut the paper so that it fits under the sensor single-ply. If you really do need more, keep putting strips under the sensor until it's where it should be. Use this technique with reservation, if you raise a sensor too high it will always be activated when you screw down the arrow panel which is not good. Unless the manager is letting you into the operator menu, you won't know this until you try to play a game.
4. Redeployment:
- If you are able to use the test page of the operator menu this will be much easier. If not... you should play the machine enough (after cleaning and reassembling everything) to be able to rate each sensor (not arrow, sensor) by sensitivity. Yeah that's going to take a while but it's worth it.
* On EXTREME playing a song on Single/Light will pass the first stage no matter what. So start a Versus game, set one side to Light and the other side to whatever you want and start quadranting arrows to find out how each sensor behaves.
...Once you have an idea of how each sensor works you want to move them around so the good sensors are in the best places. If you play DDR-style your feet push outward on each arrow putting the most weight on the outside sensor. If you play ITG-style or bracket, the most weight will be applied to the inside sensors. So put the most sensitive/most reliable sensors according to how you play and put the weak/unplugged sensors as far as you can in the other direction.
Example for a single pad:
I want to play DDR-style and I have nine great sensors, two good ones, three bad ones and two dead ones. Since I have plenty of good sensors I'll put four on the outside, and another four on one side, which side doesn't really matter (The ninth is on the inside of the right arrow, I'll explain this later). Then I take my weaker sensors and distribute then to the remaining sides and the inside. Leaving the remaining inside slots for the completely dead ones.
The reason I put a good sensor on the inside of the right arrow is because my example is the left pad of a stage. If you want the best Doubles experience (regardless how you play) put good sensors on the outside of every arrow AND on the inside of the two center arrows on the stage (1P right & 2P left). If you don't you may find yourself breaking combos every time arrow patterns spread across both pads.
Don't do this redeployment one stage at a time. Take stock of the condition of all your sensors and spread them out a evenly as you can. You may have enough good sensors that it doesn't matter, or you may have so many bad ones that there's little you can do but make the game "less worse".
This technique entails nothing more than a damp rag, some tape and a little know-how. Without replacing any parts I have turned machines that fail you on Heavy into machines that can Full Combo Challenge courses. After a few months of regular play this process will have to be repeated. Junk removed, sensors reseated, reorganized and raised... Ultimately nothing can fight the age of an old DDR machine and eventually sensors (and sometimes arrows) will have to be completely replaced to keep the game running. It's cool that you can do this. Some arcade operators will let a regular touch their machine, but sometimes they will be dead certain you mean to con them somehow. Nothing one can do about that except put money into locations that actually care about their customers.
Good luck!
- Clean the arrows completely. A damp rag will do, mind the decals on the underside as they might be peeling from wear.
- Clean the brackets and screws. Scrub any debris off the brackets and try to brush anything out of the grooves in the screws. If a screw was almost impossible to get off due to stripping, it's best to leave it off. Stage brackets will hold themselves in place with a single screw just fine. If a bracket lost both screws, start rationing from the rest of the stage.
2. Dismantle the sensors:
- Wipe down the sensors themselves GENTLY. especially the wires and connectors. Mishandling old sensors will cause damage, I speak from experience.
* To easily remove the sensor connectors, look for a groove in between the two connectors and insert a flat head screw driver. Firmly apply pressure and twist just slightly. Once there is a gap they will pull apart easily.
- Brush any debris (and there will be) from the sensor cradles and the surrounding area.
3. McGyvering:
- If the plastic and/or padding on the top of the brackets are misaligned, carefully (preferably with a sharp knife) cut and completely remove the plastic and padding (as a single piece if possible), clean the top of the bracket as best you can - cutting off any residue as well, apply double-sided scotch tape to the bracket and firmly reapply the padding.
- If the plastic or both plastic and pad are missing, completely clean off the top of the bracket and replace it with double-sided construction tape LEAVING THE PLASTIC COATING ON. Hardware stores have this and it's pretty cheap, the thickness and durability almost perfectly emulates the original padding. The plastic coating the tape comes with prevents it from sticking to the arrow (which is bad).
- If you know a sensor is completely dead/sticks when you hit it/flutters when activated (also known as the HEAVY to BEGINNER in less than a second glitch)put them back in the machine but leave them unplugged. The sensor being there balances out the pad and since the machine won't ever see it it can now focus on input from sensors that are working.
- If a sensor has frayed wiring and/or has wiring that was poorly taped back together, simply take small bits of masking tape and patch/re-patch the wires. It's common for sensors to misfire or no longer work because exposed wiring is shorting them out. You may bring a sensor back to life doing this.
- If you know a sensor is weak or gives late steps you want to raise it. Business cards and redemption tickets work best. Normally you only want the most subtle raise, so cut the paper so that it fits under the sensor single-ply. If you really do need more, keep putting strips under the sensor until it's where it should be. Use this technique with reservation, if you raise a sensor too high it will always be activated when you screw down the arrow panel which is not good. Unless the manager is letting you into the operator menu, you won't know this until you try to play a game.
4. Redeployment:
- If you are able to use the test page of the operator menu this will be much easier. If not... you should play the machine enough (after cleaning and reassembling everything) to be able to rate each sensor (not arrow, sensor) by sensitivity. Yeah that's going to take a while but it's worth it.
* On EXTREME playing a song on Single/Light will pass the first stage no matter what. So start a Versus game, set one side to Light and the other side to whatever you want and start quadranting arrows to find out how each sensor behaves.
...Once you have an idea of how each sensor works you want to move them around so the good sensors are in the best places. If you play DDR-style your feet push outward on each arrow putting the most weight on the outside sensor. If you play ITG-style or bracket, the most weight will be applied to the inside sensors. So put the most sensitive/most reliable sensors according to how you play and put the weak/unplugged sensors as far as you can in the other direction.
Example for a single pad:
I want to play DDR-style and I have nine great sensors, two good ones, three bad ones and two dead ones. Since I have plenty of good sensors I'll put four on the outside, and another four on one side, which side doesn't really matter (The ninth is on the inside of the right arrow, I'll explain this later). Then I take my weaker sensors and distribute then to the remaining sides and the inside. Leaving the remaining inside slots for the completely dead ones.
The reason I put a good sensor on the inside of the right arrow is because my example is the left pad of a stage. If you want the best Doubles experience (regardless how you play) put good sensors on the outside of every arrow AND on the inside of the two center arrows on the stage (1P right & 2P left). If you don't you may find yourself breaking combos every time arrow patterns spread across both pads.
Don't do this redeployment one stage at a time. Take stock of the condition of all your sensors and spread them out a evenly as you can. You may have enough good sensors that it doesn't matter, or you may have so many bad ones that there's little you can do but make the game "less worse".
This technique entails nothing more than a damp rag, some tape and a little know-how. Without replacing any parts I have turned machines that fail you on Heavy into machines that can Full Combo Challenge courses. After a few months of regular play this process will have to be repeated. Junk removed, sensors reseated, reorganized and raised... Ultimately nothing can fight the age of an old DDR machine and eventually sensors (and sometimes arrows) will have to be completely replaced to keep the game running. It's cool that you can do this. Some arcade operators will let a regular touch their machine, but sometimes they will be dead certain you mean to con them somehow. Nothing one can do about that except put money into locations that actually care about their customers.
Good luck!
Post #5 · Posted at 2012-02-20 03:06:06am 13.3 years ago
| SparK | |
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Wow thanks!
i'll try that in the near future and let you know how it goes!
i'll try that in the near future and let you know how it goes!
Post #6 · Posted at 2012-02-20 04:25:29am 13.3 years ago
I actually have a similar problem. The bowling alley near my place has a DDR Supernova which is in alright condition; no lag issues or anything. The only problem is that 3 out of the 8 arrows stick sometime; one on the P1 side and two on the P2 side. From the information I've collected around the internet is that this could be either a bad sensor, or the L bracket stays pressed down for a while. If I step on the pad hard enough it'll "unstick" so I think the problem is with the L bracket.
Any idea as to how to identify which sensor/bracket the problem is with and how to go about fixing it?
Any idea as to how to identify which sensor/bracket the problem is with and how to go about fixing it?
Post #7 · Posted at 2012-02-20 04:53:45am 13.3 years ago
| AeronPeryton | |
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Quote: teejusb
I actually have a similar problem. The bowling alley near my place has a DDR Supernova which is in alright condition; no lag issues or anything. The only problem is that 3 out of the 8 arrows stick sometime; one on the P1 side and two on the P2 side. From the information I've collected around the internet is that this could be either a bad sensor, or the L bracket stays pressed down for a while. If I step on the pad hard enough it'll "unstick" so I think the problem is with the L bracket. Any idea as to how to identify which sensor/bracket the problem is with and how to go about fixing it?
It could be one of three things. The sensor is going bad (most likely), the bracket is improperly installed and doesn't move freely when pressed or the sensor was raised by someone else and is too high (least likely).
If the sensor is bad, have it moved to slot where a dead sensor would least effect gameplay and leave it in place but unplugged.
If the brackets are the issue, make sure they're clean and make sure all (up to) three screws securing it are tightened to the stage but not the bracket itself. Sensor bracket screws are three pieces; a screw, a flat washer and a long washer. If any of these pieces are missing it can cause problems. Look inside the arrow well and you may find pieces lying loose... Assemble as many complete screws as you can. Properly secured, a bracket should be able to move up and down freely, without any resistance at all. If you need to remove some screws completely to make this happen a sensor bracket will work with as little as one screw (make sure that one screw is on one of the top slots and not the bottom). I recommend at least two per bracket, both on the top. Ration other brackets to make this happen.
If the problem is a paper mod put in by someone else then you may need to take it back out. If there are multiple layers under the sensor remove half and see how it works. If it's still sticking, remove all of it. Don't ask me why but I've seen sensors that work better with paper underneath them and then months later have to have it removed because they're suddenly too high and registering false hits.
If you can convince the arcade operator to let you into the game menu where you can test each sensor that's the easiest way. Otherwise you have to play a few games where you step on each side of the arrow to get a feel for those sensors. Since you know which arrows are the problem you just need to apply pressure to the four corners of those arrows to determine which sensor(s) it is.
Post #8 · Posted at 2012-02-20 07:16:40am 13.3 years ago
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Question... why would you put the dead sensors on the inside when you usually step on the inside?
Post #9 · Posted at 2012-02-20 07:36:42am 13.3 years ago
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He put the dead sensors on the inside because his play style is like that. If you bracket, like most do while playing ITG you'd put the dead sensors on the outside since you would use the inner sensors more. DDR style (for the record, I've never heard of this style, probably because I was out of the scene for a while xD), basing off of Aeron's information, you use the outer ones more, so you would put the better sensors there.
Personally, I'd keep the the better sensors on the inside, but I'd keep a worse one at the very top on the up arrow because I don't believe that sensor gets too much action, and possible at the very bottom of the down arrow. But this is all speculation, I'm not by any means an expert.
Personally, I'd keep the the better sensors on the inside, but I'd keep a worse one at the very top on the up arrow because I don't believe that sensor gets too much action, and possible at the very bottom of the down arrow. But this is all speculation, I'm not by any means an expert.
Post #10 · Posted at 2012-02-20 08:02:45am 13.3 years ago
| AeronPeryton | |
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Last updated: 2012-02-20 08:04am
Quote: SparK
Question... why would you put the dead sensors on the inside when you usually step on the inside?
Quote: AeronPeryton
If you play DDR-style your feet push outward on each arrow putting the most weight on the outside sensor. If you play ITG-style or bracket, the most weight will be applied to the inside sensors. So put the most sensitive/most reliable sensors according to how you play and put the weak/unplugged sensors as far as you can in the other direction.
There really isn't anything called "DDR-style" gameplay. That's just the spur of the moment name I gave to dancing in a way where you put your foot (more or less) on the center of the panel during gameplay... even on Doubles. This puts more pressure on the outer sensors for each arrow more than any other sensor, so if that's what you're going for you want your best sensors on the outside.
(This is also why I insisted that the two inner stage arrows have good sensors on the inside and the outside. There are many times where you will be on the 1P side pushing inward on the 2P left arrow and on the 2P side pushing inward on the 1P right arrow.)
Since, SparK and teejusb, you're working on a public machine it would be for the benefit of other players to set the machine up in this way. Ideally, if you have enough good sensors, make sure the outer AND inner sensors are your best ones and leave the weaker and broken ones on the sides and as spread out as possible. That way you can accommodate everyone.
Post #11 · Posted at 2012-02-22 02:53:15am 13.3 years ago
I wrote some articles on my local forum about this topic. I don't know if you have to be a member to see'em or not, but here's the URL:
http://www.pnwbemani.net/articles/?cat=10
The business card trick is one of the oldest and cheapest known ways to revitalize a failing pad. I've used it many times to bring pads from crap status to good or even great. Here's what I wrote on it:
http://www.pnwbemani.net/articles/arcade-machine-maintenance/business-card-trick/23
I even made an impromptu video on how to do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKox0YuIjGs&feature=player_embedded
Cleaning the pads out will help a lot, but sometimes that takes a lot of time and is hard to do during 'business hours'.
http://www.pnwbemani.net/articles/arcade-machine-maintenance/cleaning-an-arcade-dance-dance-revolution-pad/22
Again, another impromptu video I made showing basic maintenance processes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkXsJK1tz0&feature=player_embedded
http://www.pnwbemani.net/articles/?cat=10
The business card trick is one of the oldest and cheapest known ways to revitalize a failing pad. I've used it many times to bring pads from crap status to good or even great. Here's what I wrote on it:
http://www.pnwbemani.net/articles/arcade-machine-maintenance/business-card-trick/23
I even made an impromptu video on how to do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKox0YuIjGs&feature=player_embedded
Cleaning the pads out will help a lot, but sometimes that takes a lot of time and is hard to do during 'business hours'.
http://www.pnwbemani.net/articles/arcade-machine-maintenance/cleaning-an-arcade-dance-dance-revolution-pad/22
Again, another impromptu video I made showing basic maintenance processes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkXsJK1tz0&feature=player_embedded
Quote: teejusb
Personally, I'd keep the the better sensors on the inside, but I'd keep a worse one at the very top on the up arrow because I don't believe that sensor gets too much action, and possible at the very bottom of the down arrow. But this is all speculation, I'm not by any means an expert.
The outter sensor of the DOWN ARROW is the least used sensor on the machine. I suggest your worst (or totally dead) sensor goes here. It is REALLY important to put your best sensors on the inner sides of each arrow cavity. Even if you don't bracket, these are the most likely areas to get pressed and 'trigger' the sensor.
