Post #1 · Posted at 2011-06-03 04:24:13pm 14 years ago
 sharibetsu | |
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Cross-posted from Facebook. I'm trying to get some traction behind this idea so we can somehow simultaneously bring currently dead BEMANI CS titles back to life and BEMANI CS games out of Japan.
This idea is still a Work-In-Progress as I am trying to refine it to make as much sense as I possibly can so you can see my idea/vision and how it can work. So far, my first idea is present to you in it's most basic form. I will continue to work on this and explain each point more as I go along. I hope to have this get some input from other people as a way to continue the Bemani line in other countries and regions outside of Japan. Here is my idea.A couple months ago I thought of this idea that is supposed to be helpful in some way to bring IIDX, GFDM, and DDR back into the international spotlight. Instead of doing a game series that is a clone of Rock Band, Guitar Hero, or Rock Revolution where the game is centered around a "Band Session" we can do a game series that is more oriented to the type of venue that it's being held at and they can link up either online or through local LAN sessions. I know this has been done before with DDR and IIDX for 2ndMIX and IIDX Club Version/Substream then with GFDM and Keyboardmania but this is more of a way of tailoring it to the CS games and possibly bringing those series into a new generation of consoles and gamers. I have two different methods of having this work and this will produce a long note so please bear with me to the end. I will try to make my points seem less boring to you.
DanceDanceRevolution (PS3/Xbox360/Wii) + beatmaniaIIDX? (Club themed game)
Musically it has been done with crossovers or by another term "Bemani Transplants." We've seen many songs feature in one series and then carried over exclusively to the other. Why is that? because many people do like to hear some songs in other games. But ten years ago, when both series were still young, they were treated differently and were played at the same time. Due to the previous attempts at having a "club themed" game with the two game series this may seem very familiar to everyone who has studied the history of both games. With this in mind, many will note that it didn't fair very well and didn't last that long feature wise but still continues to this day with those aformentioned crossovers. This isn't a history lesson but more of a chance at bringing lessons of the past to the future. My idea for a DDR/IIDX is similar to a game such as DJ Hero where the game is literally set in a club. I'm not talking about changing the basic style of gameplay but having the two games "merge" to form an event within the game itself.
Gameplay:
The Game will be very, VERY similar to their previous game series of the past but instead of having two SEPARATE games, you can have two games in one. So one player can be playing the song on a DDR pad while the other is playing with a Konami Original Controller in IIDX mode. Now this HAS been done before by Konami but only in the Arcade setting. With game consoles today, this is not only possible it has been done before. Of course there is the possiblity that someone might say you're are copying off of DJ Hero, but it isn't about that. This is to bring the Bemani empire to a new generation. If the game play works, why can't other people use it? There isn't anything new here to add for gameplay as this isn't where the renovation lies for the series. That will be in how Multiplayer is performed.
Multiplayer:
This is how the game series shows off what it can do. As I mentioned before, this is a "Club or Dance Hall oriented" game. So having guitars and drums would seem ill-fit in a game like this. No? Well that's no big deal because we're here to focus on dancing and making the music. In a multiplayer session, we can have four players playing simulataneously either dancing or playing with IIDX controllers. The key part to this is the possiblity of having four players dancing at the same time as we have had happen in the Xbox and Wii series of games or have any combination of IIDX and DDR players. One person can be the "DJ" and the other three can be the dancers in the "club." The dancers can utilize the features of Kinect, Move, or Wii Motion Plus controls to enhance the score. While it seems that nothing is new, yet again, I don't expect this to be a new game in terms of how it's played or bringing a new series about all together, but it's more of a way to group similar games together in a new area of the world.
For the online portion of multiplayer, this is where it gets really interesting. Having a LARGE number of players act as the club's dancers and a few act as the DJ is how the multiplayer setting starts out. Each DJ has a "DJ Rating" that shows how well he can adjust to the dancers' likings and can influence them to stay in the Venue. If the DJ is mixing (playing) well, then they can increase their score and have a better chance at being Ranked. The dancers can have a way to request songs that the DJ will be able to see and can queue up the music based on this request list or choose his own. This won't be a completely new system but will mostly act as a new form of Course Mode (for DDR) or Expert Mode (for IIDX). If the crowd doesn't like a certain number of songs that the DJ picks, or if the DJ fails the course he is booted from the course and another DJ takes control. This other DJ can be a back-up and plays in the shadow of the first but doesn't influence the crowd. The second DJ only plays the pre-selected songs that the first DJ had picked.
Another way to look at it is, Player 1 is the Main DJ in the Venue. This DJ picks the songs and controls the flow of the Venue for this setlist. If he/she fails then they are down-ranked and forced to play as back up DJ and lose control of the Venue. The next DJ in line is chosen as the new Main DJ and takes control thus starting a new Course. Players 2-8 can be the back up DJ and are only playing to increase their score/DJ rating.
*Here's what I thought about battle mode.
There can be multiple Battle Modes:
1) DJ VS Dancer: in this mode, it is very, very similar to the way the game was done between the old link versions of DDR/IIDX. If one is doing bad it's harder for the other to play, however, I want to throw in the battle "weapons/gimmicks" seen in the newer games such as DDR SuperNOVA/SN2.
2) DJ VS DJ: In this mode it's a standard IIDX Double Play with the new addition of DDR-esque battle gimmicks that force modifiers on the other player(s). Much like a multiplayer session of Tetris for the newer games that support multiple players. They can also do a score attack that will give the DJs different DJ Ratings based on their EX Score.
3) Dancer VS Dancer: Largely unchanged from previous DDR titles. There is a menu to select the type of battle. DDR SuperNOVA style or DDR Hottest Party (Series) style with gimmick icons.
4) End of the Week/Month Battles or Tournaments: Throughout the week or month there are small battles that take place to set up a large tournament so there can be a system to give out DJ/Dancer Rating Points. Dancers can have dance battles and Sirius' idea of teams makes it awesome! (Thanks TheSirius17) So we can have teams, or "clans" if you're an FPS buff, that battle it out every tournament period.
Ways to use Additional Features for different consoles:
Wii/Nintendo Cafe: Wii Remote and Wii Motion Plus Remotes offer menu selection, motion control and gimicks of some sort. Hand markers to "raise the roof" or something to act as a celebration movement.
Xbox 360: Kinect can have Gimicks that are similar to the ones seen on the Wii version. Freestyle dancing mode? Games in HD, save song lists online.
Playstation 3 (PS3): Similar to those seen above, offers games in HD and saves song lists online.
CONTROLS:
USB controllers are the norm for the current generation for NON-wireless devices. If there is a IIDX controller we can have the PS2 Japanese Konami Original Controller used for IIDX Mode in the game. If there is a DDR Softpad we can use the existing USB controllers seen in DDR for Xbox 360 and PS3 and have the design match the design of the new software.
Notes:
In time, I will have more features here.
Here are some ideas that I plan on expanding later:
-DJ Remixes: Being able to select two or more songs to have them mashed up. Similar to how they are in DJ Hero but instead of having pre-made songs, they can be mixed by the DJ themselves and posted to the internet. If used in online multiplayer, the Dancers can rate the DJ and either increase or decrease his score/DJ Rating.
-Connectability for other Bemani Crossover games. (GFDM + DDR Coming soon)
-A better system for DLC
-A new group of artists and how we can have more being involved. Daft Punk vs Naoki possibly?
-Doubles play in DDR mode. Two people playing doubles at the same time even!
-With an online system in place people can vote to see what songs they would like to see in the game as DLC from the archives of DDR and beatmaniaIIDX.
This idea is still a Work-In-Progress as I am trying to refine it to make as much sense as I possibly can so you can see my idea/vision and how it can work. So far, my first idea is present to you in it's most basic form. I will continue to work on this and explain each point more as I go along. I hope to have this get some input from other people as a way to continue the Bemani line in other countries and regions outside of Japan. Here is my idea.A couple months ago I thought of this idea that is supposed to be helpful in some way to bring IIDX, GFDM, and DDR back into the international spotlight. Instead of doing a game series that is a clone of Rock Band, Guitar Hero, or Rock Revolution where the game is centered around a "Band Session" we can do a game series that is more oriented to the type of venue that it's being held at and they can link up either online or through local LAN sessions. I know this has been done before with DDR and IIDX for 2ndMIX and IIDX Club Version/Substream then with GFDM and Keyboardmania but this is more of a way of tailoring it to the CS games and possibly bringing those series into a new generation of consoles and gamers. I have two different methods of having this work and this will produce a long note so please bear with me to the end. I will try to make my points seem less boring to you.
DanceDanceRevolution (PS3/Xbox360/Wii) + beatmaniaIIDX? (Club themed game)
Musically it has been done with crossovers or by another term "Bemani Transplants." We've seen many songs feature in one series and then carried over exclusively to the other. Why is that? because many people do like to hear some songs in other games. But ten years ago, when both series were still young, they were treated differently and were played at the same time. Due to the previous attempts at having a "club themed" game with the two game series this may seem very familiar to everyone who has studied the history of both games. With this in mind, many will note that it didn't fair very well and didn't last that long feature wise but still continues to this day with those aformentioned crossovers. This isn't a history lesson but more of a chance at bringing lessons of the past to the future. My idea for a DDR/IIDX is similar to a game such as DJ Hero where the game is literally set in a club. I'm not talking about changing the basic style of gameplay but having the two games "merge" to form an event within the game itself.
Gameplay:
The Game will be very, VERY similar to their previous game series of the past but instead of having two SEPARATE games, you can have two games in one. So one player can be playing the song on a DDR pad while the other is playing with a Konami Original Controller in IIDX mode. Now this HAS been done before by Konami but only in the Arcade setting. With game consoles today, this is not only possible it has been done before. Of course there is the possiblity that someone might say you're are copying off of DJ Hero, but it isn't about that. This is to bring the Bemani empire to a new generation. If the game play works, why can't other people use it? There isn't anything new here to add for gameplay as this isn't where the renovation lies for the series. That will be in how Multiplayer is performed.
Multiplayer:
This is how the game series shows off what it can do. As I mentioned before, this is a "Club or Dance Hall oriented" game. So having guitars and drums would seem ill-fit in a game like this. No? Well that's no big deal because we're here to focus on dancing and making the music. In a multiplayer session, we can have four players playing simulataneously either dancing or playing with IIDX controllers. The key part to this is the possiblity of having four players dancing at the same time as we have had happen in the Xbox and Wii series of games or have any combination of IIDX and DDR players. One person can be the "DJ" and the other three can be the dancers in the "club." The dancers can utilize the features of Kinect, Move, or Wii Motion Plus controls to enhance the score. While it seems that nothing is new, yet again, I don't expect this to be a new game in terms of how it's played or bringing a new series about all together, but it's more of a way to group similar games together in a new area of the world.
For the online portion of multiplayer, this is where it gets really interesting. Having a LARGE number of players act as the club's dancers and a few act as the DJ is how the multiplayer setting starts out. Each DJ has a "DJ Rating" that shows how well he can adjust to the dancers' likings and can influence them to stay in the Venue. If the DJ is mixing (playing) well, then they can increase their score and have a better chance at being Ranked. The dancers can have a way to request songs that the DJ will be able to see and can queue up the music based on this request list or choose his own. This won't be a completely new system but will mostly act as a new form of Course Mode (for DDR) or Expert Mode (for IIDX). If the crowd doesn't like a certain number of songs that the DJ picks, or if the DJ fails the course he is booted from the course and another DJ takes control. This other DJ can be a back-up and plays in the shadow of the first but doesn't influence the crowd. The second DJ only plays the pre-selected songs that the first DJ had picked.
Another way to look at it is, Player 1 is the Main DJ in the Venue. This DJ picks the songs and controls the flow of the Venue for this setlist. If he/she fails then they are down-ranked and forced to play as back up DJ and lose control of the Venue. The next DJ in line is chosen as the new Main DJ and takes control thus starting a new Course. Players 2-8 can be the back up DJ and are only playing to increase their score/DJ rating.
*Here's what I thought about battle mode.
There can be multiple Battle Modes:
1) DJ VS Dancer: in this mode, it is very, very similar to the way the game was done between the old link versions of DDR/IIDX. If one is doing bad it's harder for the other to play, however, I want to throw in the battle "weapons/gimmicks" seen in the newer games such as DDR SuperNOVA/SN2.
2) DJ VS DJ: In this mode it's a standard IIDX Double Play with the new addition of DDR-esque battle gimmicks that force modifiers on the other player(s). Much like a multiplayer session of Tetris for the newer games that support multiple players. They can also do a score attack that will give the DJs different DJ Ratings based on their EX Score.
3) Dancer VS Dancer: Largely unchanged from previous DDR titles. There is a menu to select the type of battle. DDR SuperNOVA style or DDR Hottest Party (Series) style with gimmick icons.
4) End of the Week/Month Battles or Tournaments: Throughout the week or month there are small battles that take place to set up a large tournament so there can be a system to give out DJ/Dancer Rating Points. Dancers can have dance battles and Sirius' idea of teams makes it awesome! (Thanks TheSirius17) So we can have teams, or "clans" if you're an FPS buff, that battle it out every tournament period.
Ways to use Additional Features for different consoles:
Wii/Nintendo Cafe: Wii Remote and Wii Motion Plus Remotes offer menu selection, motion control and gimicks of some sort. Hand markers to "raise the roof" or something to act as a celebration movement.
Xbox 360: Kinect can have Gimicks that are similar to the ones seen on the Wii version. Freestyle dancing mode? Games in HD, save song lists online.
Playstation 3 (PS3): Similar to those seen above, offers games in HD and saves song lists online.
CONTROLS:
USB controllers are the norm for the current generation for NON-wireless devices. If there is a IIDX controller we can have the PS2 Japanese Konami Original Controller used for IIDX Mode in the game. If there is a DDR Softpad we can use the existing USB controllers seen in DDR for Xbox 360 and PS3 and have the design match the design of the new software.
Notes:
In time, I will have more features here.
Here are some ideas that I plan on expanding later:
-DJ Remixes: Being able to select two or more songs to have them mashed up. Similar to how they are in DJ Hero but instead of having pre-made songs, they can be mixed by the DJ themselves and posted to the internet. If used in online multiplayer, the Dancers can rate the DJ and either increase or decrease his score/DJ Rating.
-Connectability for other Bemani Crossover games. (GFDM + DDR Coming soon)
-A better system for DLC
-A new group of artists and how we can have more being involved. Daft Punk vs Naoki possibly?
-Doubles play in DDR mode. Two people playing doubles at the same time even!
-With an online system in place people can vote to see what songs they would like to see in the game as DLC from the archives of DDR and beatmaniaIIDX.
Post #2 · Posted at 2011-06-03 05:20:33pm 14 years ago
| TheSirius17 | |
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So your idea is to bring back Link Session, right? That's really great idea!
BATTLE MODE also can be implemented in this type of game-playing. Basically, one DJ and one dancer will cooperate to fight each other just like those breakdance battle. When it's finished, the DJs' peroformaces will be rated by the system's "spectators" and will be combined with the dancers' rating to get an overall result. Team with the highest grade will win the game.
What's your opinion?
BATTLE MODE also can be implemented in this type of game-playing. Basically, one DJ and one dancer will cooperate to fight each other just like those breakdance battle. When it's finished, the DJs' peroformaces will be rated by the system's "spectators" and will be combined with the dancers' rating to get an overall result. Team with the highest grade will win the game.
What's your opinion?
Post #3 · Posted at 2011-06-03 06:52:34pm 14 years ago
| sharibetsu | |
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Oh thank you for posting that! I actually thought about doing a new Battle Mode but it completely slipped my mind when I finished writing the end. I'll be sure to update the ideas about that.
Here's what I thought about battle mode.
There can be multiple Battle Modes:
1) DJ VS Dancer: in this mode, it is very, very similar to the way the game was done between the old link versions of DDR/IIDX. If one is doing bad it's harder for the other to play, however, I want to throw in the battle "weapons/gimmicks" seen in the newer games such as DDR SuperNOVA/SN2.
2) DJ VS DJ: In this mode it's a standard IIDX Double Play with the new addition of DDR-esque battle gimmicks that force modifiers on the other player(s). Much like a multiplayer session of Tetris for the newer games that support multiple players. They can also do a score attack that will give the DJs different DJ Ratings based on their EX Score.
3) Dancer VS Dancer: Largely unchanged from previous DDR titles. There is a menu to select the type of battle. DDR SuperNOVA style or DDR Hottest Party (Series) style with gimmick icons.
4) End of the Week/Month Battles or Tournaments: Throughout the week or month there are small battles that take place to set up a large tournament so there can be a system to give out DJ/Dancer Rating Points. Dancers can have dance battles and Sirius' idea of teams makes it awesome! (Thanks TheSirius17) So we can have teams, or "clans" if you're an FPS buff, that battle it out every tournament period.
------------------
I like that idea of having a DJ VS Dancer battle that has the spectators decide. That sounds like a good idea however there is always a chance that people will play unfair and pick favorites. So we gotta keep it easy and base it on score some how. Maybe implement an EX Score system for DDR gameplay as well? And to answer your question, yes in a way. It's not just a way to bring back linking with DDR and other games but a way for consoles games to be connected with each other. It's more like Link Version + Internet.
Here's what I thought about battle mode.
There can be multiple Battle Modes:
1) DJ VS Dancer: in this mode, it is very, very similar to the way the game was done between the old link versions of DDR/IIDX. If one is doing bad it's harder for the other to play, however, I want to throw in the battle "weapons/gimmicks" seen in the newer games such as DDR SuperNOVA/SN2.
2) DJ VS DJ: In this mode it's a standard IIDX Double Play with the new addition of DDR-esque battle gimmicks that force modifiers on the other player(s). Much like a multiplayer session of Tetris for the newer games that support multiple players. They can also do a score attack that will give the DJs different DJ Ratings based on their EX Score.
3) Dancer VS Dancer: Largely unchanged from previous DDR titles. There is a menu to select the type of battle. DDR SuperNOVA style or DDR Hottest Party (Series) style with gimmick icons.
4) End of the Week/Month Battles or Tournaments: Throughout the week or month there are small battles that take place to set up a large tournament so there can be a system to give out DJ/Dancer Rating Points. Dancers can have dance battles and Sirius' idea of teams makes it awesome! (Thanks TheSirius17) So we can have teams, or "clans" if you're an FPS buff, that battle it out every tournament period.
------------------
I like that idea of having a DJ VS Dancer battle that has the spectators decide. That sounds like a good idea however there is always a chance that people will play unfair and pick favorites. So we gotta keep it easy and base it on score some how. Maybe implement an EX Score system for DDR gameplay as well? And to answer your question, yes in a way. It's not just a way to bring back linking with DDR and other games but a way for consoles games to be connected with each other. It's more like Link Version + Internet.
Post #4 · Posted at 2011-06-03 06:58:47pm 14 years ago
| Aegis | |
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I'd like a IIDX game WITH online play and a iidx controller, dlc, and a good song list, without those silly gimmicks or "raising the roof".
But one can only dream.
But one can only dream.
Post #5 · Posted at 2011-06-03 07:01:29pm 14 years ago
| sharibetsu | |
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Well, the raising the roof part was just an idea of what "can be" done. I wasn't being literal on that. In fact I hate raising the roof.
The key thing is not making a IIDX successor but bringing IIDX to people that are used to RB, GH, etc. Once this is established they can start bringing in IIDX proper.
The key thing is not making a IIDX successor but bringing IIDX to people that are used to RB, GH, etc. Once this is established they can start bringing in IIDX proper.
Post #6 · Posted at 2011-06-03 07:23:41pm 14 years ago
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Would this also be keen to the proper iidx player?
Post #7 · Posted at 2011-06-03 07:30:46pm 14 years ago
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Yes, it won't be a stripped down version of IIDX OR DDR. It will be something that combines the best of both while crossing features seen on the other. If a IIDX player is used to AAAing songs while playing at HS-4 S-Random with hard on then they can do this, the charts will be the same*. The part that can be changed however is adjusting the learning curve. Everyone and anyone that touches the IIDX KOC knows that it involves some play time to get adjusted. This will be somewhat remedied with a type of "Enjoy Mode" as seen on DDR X2 AC. It's not just a regular beginner mode but a complete set of features suited for the beginner. I'm not sure if this will be autoplay on certain keys or just different modifiers but it will be NOOB friendly as well as PRO friendly.
*Same in terms of difficulty. So, GAMBOL timing on Kuro Anothers, possible.
*Same in terms of difficulty. So, GAMBOL timing on Kuro Anothers, possible.
Post #8 · Posted at 2011-06-03 10:25:05pm 14 years ago
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When you enable TEAM MODE (pairing you as DJ or dancer and your friend as the other), there will be some missions (usually request or sudden request missions) which have to be cleared in order to level up. You will battle another team and the team who can clear the mission wins. If your team and the other team clear them both, it will be judge by the number of spectators gained. When your team win a mission, there is a chance that you will get a new song and some money for payment. The new song can be acquired by playing One More Request songs or just by clearing that mission.
Sometimes you will get a regular new song and the OMR one. Also, if you meet certain conditions during your "journey", you will also get a new song. You can also battle other teams' scores and grades. So you won't just battle with another team on the same machine, but can also battle other teams' IR scores and grades.
I was thinking if it is possible to battle other team from other machine simultaneously or not.
Sometimes you will get a regular new song and the OMR one. Also, if you meet certain conditions during your "journey", you will also get a new song. You can also battle other teams' scores and grades. So you won't just battle with another team on the same machine, but can also battle other teams' IR scores and grades.
I was thinking if it is possible to battle other team from other machine simultaneously or not.
Post #9 · Posted at 2011-06-04 02:29:30am 14 years ago
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Quote: Aegis
without those silly gimmicks or "raising the roof".
