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Konami should be sued.

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Post #1 · Posted at 2009-06-11 02:24:12am 16 years ago

Offline Lirodon
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Reg. 2009-01-14

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Yes, not the other way around. I think with this DDR X debacle, we may have a case for false advertising.

The FTC FAQ on advertising says

Quote
How does the FTC determine if an ad is deceptive?

A typical inquiry follows these steps:

*

The FTC looks at the ad from the point of view of the "reasonable consumer" - the typical person looking at the ad. Rather than focusing on certain words, the FTC looks at the ad in context - words, phrases, and pictures - to determine what it conveys to consumers.
*

The FTC looks at both "express" and "implied" claims. An express claim is literally made in the ad. For example, "ABC Mouthwash prevents colds" is an express claim that the product will prevent colds. An implied claim is one made indirectly or by inference. "ABC Mouthwash kills the germs that cause colds" contains an implied claim that the product will prevent colds. Although the ad doesn't literally say that the product prevents colds, it would be reasonable for a consumer to conclude from the statement "kills the germs that cause colds" that the product will prevent colds. Under the law, advertisers must have proof to back up express and implied claims that consumers take from an ad.
*

The FTC looks at what the ad does not say - that is, if the failure to include information leaves consumers with a misimpression about the product. For example, if a company advertised a collection of books, the ad would be deceptive if it did not disclose that consumers actually would receive abridged versions of the books.
*

The FTC looks at whether the claim would be "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product. Examples of material claims are representations about a product's performance, features, safety, price, or effectiveness.
* The FTC looks at whether the advertiser has sufficient evidence to support the claims in the ad. The law requires that advertisers have proof before the ad runs.

I assume typical arcade owners had just seen the flyer which boasts for the US, "thundering" sound system (which to our player, seemed more like a drizzle), a dramatically different cabinet, edit support, etc.

What we got is completely different, and yet I see no "design subject to change" or anything. Heck, they even toured to conventions with the design that never ended up being used. Think we got a case?

Post #2 · Posted at 2009-06-11 02:34:52am 16 years ago

Offline CoreyBlaze
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Reg. 2006-10-23

Actually I think they did covered their asses on the flyer...

"Notice-images are representations of goods only. Actual products may differ from the images shown."

Look at that at the bottom of the flyer. Bastards Annoyed.

Post #3 · Posted at 2009-06-11 02:41:52am 16 years ago

Offline Pie-kun
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Yeah, no, you can't sue them.

Post #4 · Posted at 2009-06-11 02:44:15am 16 years ago

Offline Oni-91
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Post #5 · Posted at 2009-06-11 02:50:12am 16 years ago

Offline RGTM
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I have no comment on this. KONAMI has been acting retarded with the DDR series since the release of SuperNOVA.
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Post #6 · Posted at 2009-06-11 02:50:44am 16 years ago

Offline Tyma
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Any arcade that actually cares has the option of importing the Japanese or UK version.

Or they could buy Betson's version for half that price.

They will also have the option of just upgrading an existing DDR cabinet to the new PCB, which is apparantly what everyone wants their arcades to do anyway?

Post #7 · Posted at 2009-06-11 03:29:54am 16 years ago

Offline MrTM2
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Beston sucks. I just finished canceling my order with BMI gaming. 3rd person today to cancel on a DDRX cabinet.
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Post #8 · Posted at 2009-06-11 03:31:11am 16 years ago

Offline Oni-91
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Quote: Tyma
Any arcade that actually cares has the option of importing the Japanese or UK version.

Or they could buy Betson's version for half that price.

They will also have the option of just upgrading an existing DDR cabinet to the new PCB, which is apparantly what everyone wants their arcades to do anyway?
There's going to be a UK version!?
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Post #9 · Posted at 2009-06-11 03:36:37am 16 years ago

Offline Kyzentun
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"I'm honestly pissed off."
Quote: MrTM2
Beston sucks. I just finished canceling my order with BMI gaming. 3rd person today to cancel on a DDRX cabinet.
I laughed when I saw this, but really it's a bit of an overreaction.
At this point, my view as that we're not really sure the cab reported on BM[S was a true dedicab that Konami promised, or some sort of bootleg. I'd suggest waiting until there's more confirmation that this is the true US version.
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Post #10 · Posted at 2009-06-11 03:42:13am 16 years ago

Offline MrTM2
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Quote: Kyzentun
Quote: MrTM2
Beston sucks. I just finished canceling my order with BMI gaming. 3rd person today to cancel on a DDRX cabinet.
I laughed when I saw this, but really it's a bit of an overreaction.
At this point, my view as that we're not really sure the cab reported on BM[S was a true dedicab that Konami promised, or some sort of bootleg. I'd suggest waiting until there's more confirmation that this is the true US version.

I am not wasting $11,500 on this piece of SHIT. With that money I could get an Extreme and a SN2 and I could mod the extreme to SM like I did at my arcade. I had high hopes, but not anymore. Don't trust a ho (BESTON.)
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Post #11 · Posted at 2009-06-11 03:42:47am 16 years ago

Offline Pandemonium X
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And who knows, That one machine might just be a runt. I'm not going to give any final verdicts until I play on the new machine.

BTW, you can't sue Konami, they will sue you 1st.Laughing Hard

Post #12 · Posted at 2009-06-11 03:43:40am 16 years ago

Offline Oni-91
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BTW, you can't sue Konami, they will sue you 1st.Laughing Hard
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Post #13 · Posted at 2009-06-11 03:58:45am 16 years ago

Offline Highflyer
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Reg. 2007-01-28

To be fairly honest, they have a better chance of being sued by F2 systems over the 8 panel mode in the upcoming home versions. That chance is an extremely slim one. Konami will be sued one of these days, but probably not over something like this.
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Post #14 · Posted at 2009-06-11 09:28:24am 16 years ago

Offline Lirodon
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Hmm, is there any other way we could sue them? Other than using the fact that some courts have judged that kind of fine print as unconscionable

http://www.dslprime.com/dslprime/42-d/1730-judge-martinez-atat-qunconscionableq

And if we don't get the edit software, we can pwn them the same way Mattel got pwned for the Keyboard Component debacle!

Post #15 · Posted at 2009-06-11 09:32:44am 16 years ago

Offline KKiONI
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Quote: Lirodon
Hmm, is there any other way we could sue them? Other than using the fact that some courts have judged that kind of fine print as unconscionable

http://www.dslprime.com/dslprime/42-d/1730-judge-martinez-atat-qunconscionableq
Even if you could sue, I'd bet Konami would get top lawyers to defend them.

Post #16 · Posted at 2009-06-11 10:16:58am 16 years ago

Offline silenttype01
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Death threats from the Yakuza clan would work better than a lawsuit anyway >_>

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Post #17 · Posted at 2009-06-11 10:29:46am 16 years ago

Offline Pie-kun
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"On ZiV I'm like Princess Diana"
Quote: Lirodon
Hmm, is there any other way we could sue them? Other than using the fact that some courts have judged that kind of fine print as unconscionable

http://www.dslprime.com/dslprime/42-d/1730-judge-martinez-atat-qunconscionableq

[/url]

It doesn't seem quite the same here. As the judge said here, AT&T's actions would

Quote: Name
"effectively exculpate" the corporation from "any potential liability for unfair or deceptive acts or practices in commerce." "The Court will not condone such a broad and exculpatory practice,"

Based on this article, it doesn't seem like the fine print was the problem, it was the fact that the fine print extended such broad protections to the AT&T corporation, specifically the ban on class action lawsuits, that the court ruled it invalid. I'm not really sure that the fine print in Konami's flyer would be even in the same ballpark as this, especially since the media in question is a flyer, not a contract.

Quote: Lirodon

And if we don't get the edit software, we can pwn them the same way Mattel got pwned for the Keyboard Component debacle!

Well, the main "pwning" in this situation actually came from the contracting company that Mattel had hired to manufacture the component suing Mattel for fraud and breach of contract, at least according to the article. I'm sure the monthly fine leveled by the Federal Trade Commission didn't feel good, but it sounds like the out-of-court settlement really broke the bank for them.

Post #18 · Posted at 2009-06-11 10:35:59am 16 years ago

Offline Bolt-Edge
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"No."
In other words, thread sucks.
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Post #19 · Posted at 2009-06-11 10:41:52am 16 years ago

Offline Kyzentun
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"I'm honestly pissed off."
Do you guys realize what would be more effective than suing? That's right, not buying, and making sure the arcades you go to don't buy. MrTM2 has already done his part.
I'd like to repeat something though. At this point, we only have one machine, and BMS isn't exactly what I consider a reliable source. Canceling orders based on just this one report is overreacting. Wait a couple weeks, see if Konami says something, see if other people get similar cabinets. Maybe this was a fluke or an accident. Maybe it's a bootleg. Maybe Konami really did screw us. My point is, you don';t actually have enough information to make an informed choice. The best action is to wait for more information.
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Post #20 · Posted at 2009-06-11 11:56:28am 16 years ago

Offline AceJay
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"bemanistyle♪"
Quote: MrTM2
Beston sucks. I just finished canceling my order with BMI gaming. 3rd person today to cancel on a DDRX cabinet.

-You were actually going to buy one?
-You threw down a $600 deposit and canceled your order? rofl
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