Post #1 · Posted at 2009-05-05 07:27:02pm 16.1 years ago
 Chi | |
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I'm not sure in which forum this should go, Prompted by discussion in this photo thread:
http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/viewpicture.php?pictureid=7959
I thought this would make for an interesting discussion. Is it the pads? The hardware (of which there are several different "official" platforms as DDR has evolved over the years)? The software/judgement timings? The ambience? Everything?
So, just wondering what people's views are on this? What makes an arcade mix arcade to YOU?
http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/viewpicture.php?pictureid=7959
I thought this would make for an interesting discussion. Is it the pads? The hardware (of which there are several different "official" platforms as DDR has evolved over the years)? The software/judgement timings? The ambience? Everything?
Quote: PanStyle
Do you count this on your score tracker, even it wasn't been done on the arcade ? :s
Quote: kp_centi
1st of all this is a arcade machine but without the cabinet.
So of course he cant add this to the tracker.
Aj
Edit:
Wait is this arcade machine cause if it uses all the equipment etc then it is if not it don't count then
Aj
So of course he cant add this to the tracker.
Aj
Edit:
Wait is this arcade machine cause if it uses all the equipment etc then it is if not it don't count then
Aj
Quote: Chi
Interesting topic: It's at the core arcade hardware with an AC mix (I spy a System 573 digital through a Supergun just to the left of the TV), if it is performed with a metal pad, personally I don't see why it wouldn't count. Surely this discussion would be better taken up as a thread in the forums, though?
It's an interesting philosophical discussion, too - what makes a DDR arcade machine a DDR arcade machine? There are several fundamental differences between a Japanese 1st mix cabinet, a Korean 3rdMIX and a SuperNOVA cabinet (not to mention between a Japanese SN cabinet and a Betson US cabinet).
For the record, my scores aren't done in "an arcade" either - they are done on my cabinet sitting in my front room. Does that count? Some might argue it's the arcade ambience that makes the difference
It's an interesting philosophical discussion, too - what makes a DDR arcade machine a DDR arcade machine? There are several fundamental differences between a Japanese 1st mix cabinet, a Korean 3rdMIX and a SuperNOVA cabinet (not to mention between a Japanese SN cabinet and a Betson US cabinet).
For the record, my scores aren't done in "an arcade" either - they are done on my cabinet sitting in my front room. Does that count? Some might argue it's the arcade ambience that makes the difference
Quote: Mercury
Lol, I knew upping this pic would spark such a debate xD
Thing is, the arcade timings and difficulty would be exactly the same since it DOES use the legit arcade mix, unlike many scores by a certain someone who installed Bewares Extreme (aka Stepmania) on his cabinet with a JPAC and counted many AAA scores as legit. Bewares is a different kettle of fish because it could easily be set to judge 1 unlike arcade mixes running on arcade hardware (which the code cannot be changed without breaking the game).
Additionally it was done on a metal home pad hacked to work with a JAMMA interface. (The four buttons to the side are in fact the selection buttons + service menu button on a strip of veroboard)
Depending on the general consensus, I'll try and get a clearer screen pic and vid so people don't call BS on it being done on a PS1 offcamera. I deliberately included the 573 in the photo as one can clearly see.
Just clearing things up for everyone ready to call bs.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask in here (or fire me a PM)
Thing is, the arcade timings and difficulty would be exactly the same since it DOES use the legit arcade mix, unlike many scores by a certain someone who installed Bewares Extreme (aka Stepmania) on his cabinet with a JPAC and counted many AAA scores as legit. Bewares is a different kettle of fish because it could easily be set to judge 1 unlike arcade mixes running on arcade hardware (which the code cannot be changed without breaking the game).
Additionally it was done on a metal home pad hacked to work with a JAMMA interface. (The four buttons to the side are in fact the selection buttons + service menu button on a strip of veroboard)
Depending on the general consensus, I'll try and get a clearer screen pic and vid so people don't call BS on it being done on a PS1 offcamera. I deliberately included the 573 in the photo as one can clearly see.
Just clearing things up for everyone ready to call bs.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask in here (or fire me a PM)
Quote: Mercury
(For the record I don't own a PlayStation )
)So, just wondering what people's views are on this? What makes an arcade mix arcade to YOU?
Post #2 · Posted at 2009-05-05 07:40:24pm 16.1 years ago
| Daiz | |
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It must run on arcade hardware. This includes, arcade pads (any metal pad doesn't work to me because you actual differences in lag between button press responses, not to mention DDR pads feel different than say, ITG pads. There are some songs I can AAA on a DDR pad but get 2 or 3 Greats on an ITG cab), the hardware and software that it runs on and that's pretty much it. Everything else doesn't add/take away from your game play. If you wanted to argue the actual location fo the machine, then you could say getting a score at one arcade is different than another arcade due to lighting, people around the area, etc.
Post #3 · Posted at 2009-05-07 02:01:39pm 16.1 years ago
| Chi | |
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Quote: Daiz
It must run on arcade hardware. This includes, arcade pads (any metal pad doesn't work to me because you actual differences in lag between button press responses, not to mention DDR pads feel different than say, ITG pads
Interesting - thanks for your viewpoint, I see where you are coming from. Personally, I think it is quite a grey area and open to plenty of interpretation.
I've a few questions, to illustrate this: In terms of the stage unit, what about the difference between original DDR stages and the (inferior quality) remade stages for Dancing Stage Fusion (or the US-made Betson stages)? Or between a stage that has never been maintained since release in 1999 and one that has been foam modded using Hellacious method (http://www.ddrfreak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=131969)? What if someone was to replace the stage unit with an ITG dedicab's stage unit? What about playing Solo mixes (totally different stage including a different sensor setup), or playing solo mixes on a doubles cab (possible)?
Finally (for now): what if I were to wire up the stage unit and System 573 motherboard from my DDR cab to my Egret II cabinet (a generic cabinet for playing figting and shooting games)? Would that count?
(Appended comment on 7th May @ 08:00GMT+1)
EXTRA, EXTRA! Two new comments from the photo that promoted this (failed
) thread:Quote: Kyzentun
You must have at least one arrow that has at least a 20% chance of being useless until fixed for it to count as an arcade machine.
This must be a recurring bi-weekly problem.
This must be a recurring bi-weekly problem.
Quote: Highflyer
Put it this way:
Is there any reason why an arcade couldn't, if they wanted to, replace the "arcade pads" with two cobalt flux's properly wired.
Could they not unhook the speakers and use other ones? Could they not change the screen?
If you go through these questions, you'd have to get to the point of, at what point does this become not an official machine? It will never become CS/Home version for the reason that it uses the AC software, but how much hardware needs to be intact for it to be official. And then go on and ask, if that's unofficial, what about the cabs that have replacement sensors not designed for DDR cabs and other modifications. What makes that any different?
Is there any reason why an arcade couldn't, if they wanted to, replace the "arcade pads" with two cobalt flux's properly wired.
Could they not unhook the speakers and use other ones? Could they not change the screen?
If you go through these questions, you'd have to get to the point of, at what point does this become not an official machine? It will never become CS/Home version for the reason that it uses the AC software, but how much hardware needs to be intact for it to be official. And then go on and ask, if that's unofficial, what about the cabs that have replacement sensors not designed for DDR cabs and other modifications. What makes that any different?
Post #4 · Posted at 2009-05-22 12:18:39am 16.1 years ago
| Highflyer | |
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I'd like to add a bit more to this, and to be honest this thread should have really sparked more debate rather than having been left truely up in the air.
The software is arcade, there's no denying that. The hardware, apart from the 573 itself, is NOT arcade. Just to reiterate my point, there is very little to stop arcade owners changing their pads. In fact, i'm fairly confident that there probably is an arcade out there with one. If there is and someone gets a AAA are they not in exactly the same position as Mercury (besides the fact that they probably had to pay for the credit but nevermind that).
My one main thing about this is that you could probably connect a keyboard/X-Arcade/FingerDancePad up similiarly if you took the time. It's just a small dance mat for your toes for ultimate bracket raping that's sensitive enough to hit with your fingers, whats the problem with that? The dimensions of a pad is just a small detail, it's still got 4/6 buttons on it.
The software is arcade, there's no denying that. The hardware, apart from the 573 itself, is NOT arcade. Just to reiterate my point, there is very little to stop arcade owners changing their pads. In fact, i'm fairly confident that there probably is an arcade out there with one. If there is and someone gets a AAA are they not in exactly the same position as Mercury (besides the fact that they probably had to pay for the credit but nevermind that).
My one main thing about this is that you could probably connect a keyboard/X-Arcade/FingerDancePad up similiarly if you took the time. It's just a small dance mat for your toes for ultimate bracket raping that's sensitive enough to hit with your fingers, whats the problem with that? The dimensions of a pad is just a small detail, it's still got 4/6 buttons on it.
