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Question about ZiV's catologing of stepcharts

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Post #1 · Posted at 2024-10-17 05:27:20pm 7.9 months ago

Offline Suko
Suko Avatar Member
100 Posts
United States
Reg. 2007-08-11

So, I've been around a while. "Back in the day", the way ZiV had chart packs collated was like this;

If Song X came out in Game Y, then that is where the stepchart would be collated under. This was true whether it was Console (CS) or Arcade (AC) release.

However, now it seems much more arbitrary. If I had to guess, it's now something like this;

If Song X came out on CS release, but later came out to an AC release, it will then be placed under the AC category instead.
An example that comes to mind is The Shining Polaris (DDR Max PS2), is catalogued under DDR SuperNOVA (AC), which came out years afterward.

I understand the thought process here. Most people download the AC packs and expect all the songs to be there and will complain when X song isn't in the pack which should have it. However, it now makes things very confusing for old farts like me, who have useless trivia knowledge like "X song came out in this pack, so let's go to that on my music wheel and......where is it!?".

In today's age where we have so much hard drive capacity at our disposal, I'm almost tempted to say "Do it both ways" and offer a download option for the packs where you can download ALL the songs in that pack, regardless of if they were "new" to that pack or not. And you can also offer the traditional download option where it's only for the songs that were released in that pack.

I know it sounds like I'm ranting, and I suppose I am a bit. But man, it ain't fun being gasslit when you know a song came out in a specific pack and then all of the sudden it's not there anymore and instead is in an entirely different pack.
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Post #2 · Posted at 2024-10-17 05:52:56pm 7.9 months ago

Offline DMNBT
DMNBT Avatar Member+
95 Posts
Chile
Reg. 2014-06-15

I don't like the current organization only due to weird edge cases like Determination that's listed under DDR A even though the song originally debuted in DDR (2014), as that requires me to know stuff like under which folder a song is currently listed in AC where I don't have access to a cab at all.

Post #3 · Posted at 2024-10-17 06:17:20pm 7.9 months ago

Offline n00b_saib0t
n00b_saib0t Avatar Member
2,393 Posts
United States
Reg. 2007-02-05

Nintendo Network ID: n00bsaib0tNintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-7875-2425-72033DS Friend Code: 4871-6557-4900
"F***ing exhausted."
It is sorted how you described, by first arcade release, yes. But it's not an arbitrary change, this is how Konami sorts these songs. So Genom Screams and e-motion are in the 2ndMIX folder instead of the Club Version ones because that's how Konami did it for those songs, and the other Club Version songs haven't been sorted like this. Sometimes a song gets missed but if you point it out in the Simfile Errors thread it gets moved to its proper spot that Konami gave it. There is nothing stopping you from sorting the songs how you want them. Even if you use Simply Love and Groovestats/Boogie Stats, it looks at the simfile itself to see if it's a match not the folder it is in. You could sort them like the old DDRUK bumper packs did which is how you're describing it, sort songs by their first US release, or however you want them. Nothing is stopping you from changing how you sort the packs, Zenius just needed some kind of standardization and Konami's official sorting makes the most sense to use.
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Post #4 · Posted at 2024-10-17 09:53:28pm 7.9 months ago

Offline DMNBT
DMNBT Avatar Member+
95 Posts
Chile
Reg. 2014-06-15

Quote: n00b_saib0t
It is sorted how you described, by first arcade release, yes. But it's not an arbitrary change, this is how Konami sorts these songs. So Genom Screams and e-motion are in the 2ndMIX folder instead of the Club Version ones because that's how Konami did it for those songs, and the other Club Version songs haven't been sorted like this. Sometimes a song gets missed but if you point it out in the Simfile Errors thread it gets moved to its proper spot that Konami gave it. There is nothing stopping you from sorting the songs how you want them. Even if you use Simply Love and Groovestats/Boogie Stats, it looks at the simfile itself to see if it's a match not the folder it is in. You could sort them like the old DDRUK bumper packs did which is how you're describing it, sort songs by their first US release, or however you want them. Nothing is stopping you from changing how you sort the packs, Zenius just needed some kind of standardization and Konami's official sorting makes the most sense to use.
But I think the point that's being made isn't about sorting the songs after they're downloaded, but that (in the example) there's the expectation that downloading the DDRMAX2 USA pack included the described song, but once the song didn't show up there was a need to go hunt which pack actually had the song, which obviously is a minor complaint when all's said and done.

Post #5 · Posted at 2024-10-17 10:06:01pm 7.9 months ago

Offline n00b_saib0t
n00b_saib0t Avatar Member
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United States
Reg. 2007-02-05

Nintendo Network ID: n00bsaib0tNintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-7875-2425-72033DS Friend Code: 4871-6557-4900
"F***ing exhausted."
I understand the complaint, I'm saying that there is a reason the packs are sorted the way they are. OP even acknowledges the opposite, that others downloading would expect the arcade packs to include the songs from that arcade version. There isn't an option that will make everyone happy, so the only way to resolve it is to search the individual song if you don't know where it is then you can sort it manually for your setup.
Quote: sharibetsu in The Unwritten Rules of ZIv thread
Any popular thread must have at least one debate between n00b_saib0t and someone else.

Post #6 · Posted at 2024-10-18 03:22:02pm 7.9 months ago

Offline Suko
Suko Avatar Member
100 Posts
United States
Reg. 2007-08-11

Not that anyone cares what I think, but my preference would be to have each pack have 2 download options; Full pack (All songs) and New Content Only. But again, nobody cares what I want, that's a life lesson I learned years ago. Green Grin
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