Timing Options

I've now played every DDR PS2 US version (except for Disney Channel Edition) and PS1 (except for Disney Mix). They all seem to have timing options, and my TV (it's an LG HDTV) causes the game to be out of sync.

First of all, why is this? It's rather annoying. I have to set the timing options to around +5 for all my games.

But wait, DDR USA (2001) doesn't have any timing options!

So I loaded up a song just hoping it would magically sync and voila, Have You Never Been Mellow was almost perfectly on time (actually it wasn't but it was far better than my other games).

Why is DDR USA the only game that doesn't seem to have a synching problem?

i believe DDR 3rd mix had a very small timing issue without editing it.
(you cant edit the timing options on 3rd mix)

---

Of course all those games have synching issues. You are playing on a HDTV and 99% of HD TV's have visual latency. That makes all music games off sync with their default settings and the needs to calibrate becomes apparent. Old tube TV's almost never had latency issues which is why on the really old games there is no option to calibrate. Why is DDR USA in sync? Well it is likely because you just happen to adjust your timing on a older game. Or the game started the music incorrectly or all sorts of things. The point is there are many answers to that particular question as the older games ran different then the newer ones.

---

I own an Extreme cabinet that I've modded into running oITG, and I would never consider using anything but a CRT display for playing. Anything flatscreen/plasma/LCD/LED will have several milliseconds more of a delay than a CRT (which is as lag-less as you can get). If you're playing at home via a pad, I'd suggest you opt for an older analog television if you really want a proper, synchronized experience. Timing options are helpful if the pad itself has something off about it, but you're talking about a visual delay in the display itself that can't be compensated for by any software changes.

Well if you DO want to play in HD your best bet is a computer monitor. Most have <5ms of lag. When I played music games at my house I always use a computer monitor for that reason and when I needed to replace the 34" arcade monitor in my Ez2dj I opted for a 26" computer monitor as well.

---

^
Computer monitors will have a much lower delay than a television. If you can manage the delay and prefer a higher resolution, a PC monitor is your best bet. You can convert an HDMI cable to a DVI/VGA input with a simple adapter, and I assume you're using HDMI if you're on an HDTV. If you're on component, however, it's a little more tricky to convert that to a PC-compatible signal.

Actually VGA is a analog signal and that will need a convertor box which will create lag. Your best bet is actually a DVI to HDMI adapter (if you are playing XBOX 360 games for example). Both are digital signals and it does not need to convert anything in the signal to create the image. For almost anything else you will need a converter to get it running on a monitor though so it sounds like almost any way you slice it you will likely have to deal with some form of lag whether you like it or not (unless you get a old tube TV). Adapters have really small lag during a conversion if that brightens your opinion on them a bit. Its usually a frame or two delay.

---

VGA would actually be preferable if his monitor/TV has VGA input and he can connect the hardware without an adapter, as it is (barely) faster than DVI. PS/2, VGA, and Serial are basically the fastest external input methods possible in a computer system. Lowest pin count, highest bandwidth, highest frequency, lowest latency etc. are all great aspects of these ports. I'm mostly splitting hairs at this point, though.

Basically, if you can pick between VGA and DVI, so long as neither requires an adapter, go with VGA. If you're connecting your controller to a computer (No clue what sort of controller you have, I play on my machine so I use a PS/2 input) you want to go for a Serial or PS/2 connection over, say, USB, which is significantly slower.

Keep in mind, we're talking, at most, a few milliseconds or 1-4 frames of movement in the gameplay experience. Is it going to affect your entire game? Not really. Does it help to emulate a full play experience as accurately as possible? Absolutely!

It's useful to keep details like these in mind when you modify your setup, as it helps you learn more both about the science of the game and computers, and you give a little nudge in aiding your play experience to closer resemble that of an arcade machine.

I agree with what you are saying but it sounds like he wants to play his Playstation on a lagless setup (not a computer or something "new age"). There are VGA PS2 cables out there, but the 3rd party ones (not sure if they even made official) are not the best from what I am reading. He might just have to deal with converting the cable to something else by using a adapter (not converter) to just connect good old analog AV to VGA. I don't think that would produce any noticeable lag either and if it did it would be extremely tiny, maybe a frame or two at most.

But again I just say stop into a goodwill and pick up a old ass tube TV for $5. You can even get a nice sized one for that price since they are more concerned with getting rid of them then making money on them.

---

If I were asked, I would prefer using StepMania (preferably SM5) using any kind of display. Whether how big the lag in display/sound/input in your end, they can be manually adjusted via gameplay's machine sync mode. Since CS timing windows is wider than that of AC's, just set up custom timing windows to mimic those of AC's. My setting for this is based from DDR EXTREME AC frame-based data, but each judgment is 0.2 frame less than actual frame values. Those are my own experimented data through trial and error test [that I assume] can mimic those of DDR AC timing. Judgment window rate is default (4). I usually get between 20 to 80 perfect counts when playing 11s to 14s chart. The window for Great is strict too like in AC.

so, from DDR EXTREME AC f.b. timing (to be manually set in SM5's Preference.ini):

Marvelous = 1 frame ------ 1- 0.2 ----- 0.8 frame ----> 0.013333 secs
Perfect = 2 frames -------- 2 - 0.2 ----- 1.8 frames ------> 0.03 secs
Great = 4 frames ---------- 4 - 0.2 ---- 3.8 frames ------> 0.063333 secs
Good = 5 frames ---------- 5 - 0.2 ---- 4.8 frames ------> 0.08 secs
Boo = 8 frames ---------- 8 - 0.2 ---- 7.8 frames ------> 0.13 secs
Holds = 15 frames -------- (unchanged) --------> 0.25 secs

I dunno how much actual values in seconds are adjusted in Timing options in most DDR CS games, so i can't really tell if that fixes the lag in display, sound or input, completely. Most choices displayed in them are in negative, 0 (default) and positive integers.

Some DDR AC simfiles are ripped from AC data already (SN1 up to X3 so far).

The choice is still up to you.

Kon, by PS/2 I meant the PC cable format for old keyboards and mice, not the console Playstation 2. PS/2 looks like this.

No, I got that. What I am saying is the person asking doesn't want to play on a computer so what you have been telling him isn't that helpful. I also don't get the random stepmania post for that same reason...

---

Might as well say stuff right now

I can't get a tube TV. I mean, I CAN, I suppose, but I live in a hotel where they have flat screen TVs anyway. I don't want to waste money on a TV that I'd only use for DDR with a problem I can [almost] easily remedy anyway. It seems like there was a relationship between "not having any sync options" and "not having any issues with lag".

Well, thanks for the responses, anyway. This thread has now served its purpose.

I was giving him another suggestion too "just in case" he don't want to buy another display monitor like you suggested. It's the timing that he matters. Sound/sync calibration in StepMania is easier to do than in CS games. You sound very sure of your comment.

Well of course it is but you and others users all suggest stepmania like its the end all be all solution even though its nothing like the original DDR series at all. If he wanted to play stepmania he would not have posted in the DDR forum ;)

---

I got the point. Thank you for making me realized that it's bad to give suggestion.