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How can WE improve DDR A?

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Post #41 · Posted at 2018-02-18 09:29:06pm 6.1 years ago

Offline -Viper-
-Viper- Avatar Member+
2,407 Posts
United States
Reg. 2007-10-26

3DS Friend Code: 1091-8797-8693
I think you severely underestimate how difficult DDR at the arcade is, especially when it comes to the 14-17 range or so.

Post #42 · Posted at 2018-02-18 09:34:01pm 6.1 years ago

Offline Quickman
Quickman Avatar Member+
6,040 Posts
United Kingdom
Reg. 2013-08-17

"Yuuki Mishima for Tekken"

Last updated: 2018-02-18 09:34pm
Considering how 80% of the DDR fandom don't actually play the game on pad, they either play Stepmania or just keep up with the streams and the top players, people's view of what "good" is gets really clouded.

Here's an idea: Play the game a little bit before trying to tell people how much you know about it and how you've followed it for years.
Quote: Ty
Why are we booting up a Master System?
Quote: Quick Man
Because God isn't real and if he was he'd hate you.
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Post #43 · Posted at 2018-02-18 09:40:13pm 6.1 years ago

Offline Mr.Music
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2,088 Posts
United States
Reg. 2010-08-28


Last updated: 2018-02-18 09:43pm
Quote
Quote: Mr.Music
No, you need a level 18 PFC to make it to KAC. That's it.
There's a few dozen people in the world with at least one Level 18 PFC. Not even all of them made it to KAC, or even attempted to, like Dr. D for example. <irrelevant to main discussion>
A few dozen. Out of 400,000+ plus. Hmm.

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"Pulled out of my ass" and "looks reasonable" do not go together.
I've tracked the scores of Japanese regional finals on 19s and decided on 900k benchmark based on that. It's an arbitrary number, hence the term "pulled out of my ass", but not entirely baseless. <irrelevant to main discussion>
Completely relevant to main discussion, it was literally your primary argument that if you can't AA a 19 you're not good. You're looking at "regional finals," which means you're looking at the 2 best players in the country. Of course they're gonna be able to AA a 19, they probably qualify for KAC.

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Well, yes, it's called symmetry. If the pad was any bigger the game would be way harder.
That's not the core of my point. What matters is it doesn't take considerably much more effort to hit two panels with one foot than one panel with one foot if you do it consciously and don't change the foot position. Refer to video of FEFEMZ cheesing PRevoChallenge on Stealth to see what I'm talking about.
FEFEMZ cheesed Para Revo because he memorized the chart, not just because he mashed the bad. Also, we're talking about the world champion here.

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Almost and Boo got changed to miss. The good window got slightly expanded. But other than that, pad mashing still results in a lot of boos.
This is complete news to me. I admit I've never seen an arcade game in my life, let alone actual DDR, and never will because the concept of arcades is completely alien to place I live in. I've simply assumed this window no longer exists along with the entire concept of "your lifebar drains if you hit this note too early" because that's how I interpreted what Fungah said in one of his SF Evolved podcasts when explaining differences between DDR Extreme and DDR A. Maybe I've misunderstood what he said. In that case I stand corrected, take back all my opinions made so far and leave in shame.
You've never played DDR A, yet you come here and tell us we all suck?

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Half of the argument is based on my possibly wrong knowledge, the other half on semantics.
Yes, my argument is that you're wrong because you say things that are wrong.

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"Players who strive to be good" are not "good" in my textbook, but exactly what they are. Not that your effort is to be ignored, congratulations on making it this far and good luck in the future.
Players that work hard and clear upper levels of songs are good, plain and simple. You seem to be confusing "good, great, or excellent" with "professional."

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EDIT accidentally posted it here instead of PM because I'm an idiot. Can some mod delete all my offtopic chatter?
No, this conversation can stay in the thread.

Post #44 · Posted at 2018-02-18 10:33:01pm 6.1 years ago

Offline Pehr
Pehr Avatar Member
24 Posts
Sweden
Reg. 2018-01-23

Quote: Nezemarth
For those who have caught up on my strange narrative, I thought I would re-introduce the concept with working with BEMANI/localizers to improve EVERYONE's DDR experience- even those who have no clue what DDR is, or those who play casually.

Simples: just convince a millionaire to buy a couple of hundred machines or so and place them all over the world where there are few/none atm.

Post #45 · Posted at 2018-02-18 10:37:21pm 6.1 years ago

Offline Quickman
Quickman Avatar Member+
6,040 Posts
United Kingdom
Reg. 2013-08-17

"Yuuki Mishima for Tekken"

Last updated: 2018-02-18 10:37pm
Quote: Pehr
Simple

ME WHENEVER SOMEONE MAKES A GODDAMN THREAD ABOUT SHIT THAT WE AS A COMMUNITY LITERALLY CANNOT DO
Quote: Ty
Why are we booting up a Master System?
Quote: Quick Man
Because God isn't real and if he was he'd hate you.
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Post #46 · Posted at 2018-02-18 10:43:32pm 6.1 years ago

Offline King_Mew
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269 Posts
United States
Reg. 2012-06-27

Nintendo Network ID: mewy573
"Fast 'n Bulbous!"
Why is it that so many people hate DDR A and/or think it's way too casual? I am genuinely curious.
http://mew151.net/creative/coke_a.png Rippin' bro, you cleared it!

Post #47 · Posted at 2018-02-18 11:12:00pm 6.1 years ago

Offline SomethingRandom
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Reg. 2015-02-21

Game Center Nickname: blearymoos
"bootylicious "
for me, i think ddr a is more hardcore-centric compared to other mixes, with tons of songs rated above a 14. i also don't like ddr a bc it suffered from the same issue ddr 2014 did, with the lack of good updates. if konami can give constant updates to jubeat, ddr can too

Post #48 · Posted at 2018-02-18 11:21:25pm 6.1 years ago

Offline Michael1991
Michael1991 Avatar Member
359 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2008-11-12

Nintendo Network ID: MAITANZA3DS Friend Code: 2353-3627-3100Game Center Nickname: MAITANZA
Quote: King_Mew
Why is it that so many people hate DDR A and/or think it's way too casual? I am genuinely curious.

Well to be honest, I really hate DDR A, because of the same announcers and partial translations. Don't get me wrong, the US Release was actually an partial translation at all.

Post #49 · Posted at 2018-02-18 11:39:24pm 6.1 years ago

Offline Quickman
Quickman Avatar Member+
6,040 Posts
United Kingdom
Reg. 2013-08-17

"Yuuki Mishima for Tekken"
Compared to the recent releases, DDRA is possibly the best DDR game to date. Finally, MA is reliable, and there are a HUGE number of songs to play as well as it getting an official release in the USA.

You can't exactly say it's more "casual" OR more "hardcore", though. DDR is DDR. Just because it's finally fixed bugs which allow for players to get perfect scores doesn't mean it's suddenly super hardcore and only to be played by the absolute best.
Quote: Ty
Why are we booting up a Master System?
Quote: Quick Man
Because God isn't real and if he was he'd hate you.
https://card.psnprofiles.com/1/DWN012Quick_Man.png

Post #50 · Posted at 2018-02-19 12:44:41am 6.1 years ago

Offline Hsanrb
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19 Posts
Not Set
Reg. 2016-07-25

Quote: Quickman
Compared to the recent releases, DDRA is possibly the best DDR game to date. Finally, MA is reliable, and there are a HUGE number of songs to play as well as it getting an official release in the USA.

Just remember that quality > quanity... if I were to step onto DDRA and play every chart at one difficulty... I believe were at like 600-650 songs... thats ~150 credits... with Round 1 pricing, thats nearly $200-250 to play each song once. If I get better and aim for goals like PFC or MFC [not happening, I'll just stick to life 4 clears, close enough for me to hard clear on IIDX on a similar pedestal] I'd have to invest about $1000 to get achievements... One of the reasons I like Pump is they've cleared out some of the older stuff that while I'm sad... its only down to like 300 or so... which is nearly half cost to play everything once. hard core players have rank, casuals play whatever...

My biggest problem with rhythm games is so much world/region best focus. I wish I could just say "heres 3 rivals, and then I'd like top 3 on this machine." I didn't say don't have them, just I think all that info out there is losing the focus on why most of us play. Rather celebrate the casual getting their first AA, or FC rather than "SOME PRO GOT XYZ SCORE OMG!!"

DDRA is probably the best release, but if they stopped after babylons Adventure? or the one that got us Endymion most of the extra content is something I'd just pass over. Theres no content worth making a trip 6hrs for me to play that isn't pre 2014 I haven't done in 1 or 2 trips. Pump gives me at least 1 or 2 new songs every patch I go "I gotta run and play it" even if I make one prime 2 session per patch I'd make the 6 hr trip for.

Quote: CJM

Although I've never played IIDX (yet), I've lurked their conversations among mid-level players and vast majority of them were about them pushing their max clear difficulty. Progressing in IIDX is a daunting task with its unique clear mechanics and with a difficulty wall after difficulty wall from level 9 all the way to the hardest 12s, presenting an immediate and difficult to overcome challenge. The way IIDX plays also makes perfect-level timing of an entire chart obnoxiously difficult, so barely anyone below top echelon cares about accumulating IIDX's PFC equivalents. By contrast, scores are what almost everyone in DDR's playerbase cares about the most, regardless of their general skill level and difficulty level of charts they play, for the opposite reasons to IIDX's state of affairs.
Sorry if my wording offends anyone. It's an analysis of general trends in the games, not of individual players and their accomplishments.

Most of the player base generally only focuses on the clear lamps... DDRA has them too, but because IIDX has their EX score wipe every version theres no point to grind scores knowing when 26 comes out you have to do them all over again. There is a ghost transfer, but your still marked as 0 until you set a new one. Just think of when the next DDR comes out all when the scores get wiped and the only MFC evidence you have is a lamp on the song envelope... that people are gonna regrind all their MFC's again? The western DDR player base hasn't had that happen yet and the tears are gonna be all over the internet when it does. Probably gonna say your average player base on IIDX is like 7th/8th dan, similar to how DDR is probably ~12 new scale? Clearing doesn't mean too much on DDR these days which is why I said life 4/Full combo vs passing.


What do I want to see? Just more locations... I hate the gripe I read when every new D&B is asked "Are we getting DDR Ace?" When Pump is just as amazing as DDRAce...

Post #51 · Posted at 2018-02-19 12:55:47am 6.1 years ago

Offline Quickman
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6,040 Posts
United Kingdom
Reg. 2013-08-17

"Yuuki Mishima for Tekken"

Last updated: 2018-02-19 12:55am
You say quality>quantity while also talking about "I have to spend a thousand dollars to play everything"... Do you not see how you contradict yourself?

If you want to be a completionist, it's entirely of your own accord. If you want to MFC literally everything, PFC everything, FC everything, FUCK IT LITERALLY PLAY EVERY SONG IN THE GAME, you cannot say "well quality > quantity".

Just play the GOOD stuff! No one is forcing you to get those fancy gold lamps on each difficulty. You don't even GET anything for it! You don't get any fancy icons, titles, nothing. Why bother doing it except for bragging rights? You are just giving yourself shit to complain about.

I agree. Most of the "extra" content padded on by Konami was complete BULLSHIT. Babylon's Adventure? Very unfair. Rinon's Adventure? Completely unfair. The whole ENDYMION>ACE FOR ACES debacle? Fucking NONSENSE. But you need to realize the only way to get through to these companies is with your money. Don't give them any. Invest in a pad for home. Start playing Pump it Up. If you want something to change, MONEY IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE THAT SPEAKS TO KONAMI.
Quote: Ty
Why are we booting up a Master System?
Quote: Quick Man
Because God isn't real and if he was he'd hate you.
https://card.psnprofiles.com/1/DWN012Quick_Man.png

Post #52 · Posted at 2018-02-19 01:04:19am 6.1 years ago

Offline Mr.Music
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2,088 Posts
United States
Reg. 2010-08-28

Quote: Quickman
I agree. Most of the "extra" content padded on by Konami was complete BULLSHIT. Babylon's Adventure? Very unfair. Rinon's Adventure? Completely unfair. The whole ENDYMION>ACE FOR ACES debacle? Fucking NONSENSE.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but I have to disagree with the unlock events. Every mix has had extra savior style events, and for the most part they're pretty fun. The Next Generation Event was fun, and I didn't mind spending the extra time to unlock the Light and Standard charts. Babylon's adventure was also great because you could fail every song and still unlock most of the content pretty quickly. Things did get a little sketchy with Rinon's adventure, but they're boss charts and meant to be hard to unlock, plus the songs are still accessible even if you haven't unlocked the challenge charts. The only really bad event this mix is Endymion and Ace for Aces, which, yeah, sucks, there's no defending it.

Also, in response to the original post, people have different tastes, and like different songs, so there's no reason to cut songs that they don't have to. If you don't like a song, don't play it. Simple as that. There's lots of songs in the SN1/X folder that I'll never play because they're only 8-10 difficulty.

Post #53 · Posted at 2018-02-19 02:35:02am 6.1 years ago

Offline Nezemarth
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Reg. 2014-12-09

"Two milkmen go comedy"
Quote: Quickman
Here's an idea: Play the game a little bit before trying to tell people how much you know about it and how you've followed it for years.

That describes me pretty well. I simply want the machine to make everyone happy, casual and hardcore players alike.
Quote: xXMokou98Xx
If I spend an hour or so to make a [..] beautiful standard chart and a fun light chart and it's required for the comp, play it, or at least look it over other wise I don't see the point anymore[.]
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Post #54 · Posted at 2018-02-19 02:40:25am 6.1 years ago

Offline CuzcoBlocko
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Reg. 2013-10-26

"[Art by LilyBreez]"

Last updated: 2018-02-19 02:41am
Sadly, no matter what, there is going to be one person that dislikes DDR A. There is going to be one person that dislikes anything and it's impossible to satisfy everyone. So the best something can do is try to appease the majority of people/players. As many as possible.

Of course, DDR A has some polarizing choices inside of it that prevents it from being at its best and accomplishing even that, so your point isn't exactly moot.

Post #55 · Posted at 2018-02-19 07:04:10pm 6.1 years ago

Offline rayword45
rayword45 Avatar Member
489 Posts
Not Set
Reg. 2011-08-29


Last updated: 2018-02-19 07:06pm
Man I am so glad I only opened this thread once it came to page 3.

Though to play devil's advocate here, I'm not entirely sure passing 18s makes you "good" by today's standards considering the only 18s harder than like a mid-high ITG 12 for passing are IX and TME (...and PTF but fuck that), although this may just be self-deprecation (ftr I can pass any 18 unless it's an Extreme upgrade or something, and even then I only struggle with the aforementioned 18s ~50% of the time, meanwhile I'm still trying to beat my second ITG 14 and cannot PFC shit). Also, I might be nuts but I find a significant amount of 17s (and hell even a couple of 16s) to be harder than the lowest 18s.

I should probably stop thinking of things in ITG standards.

Post #56 · Posted at 2018-02-19 07:07:08pm 6.1 years ago

Offline DDR Addict
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Reg. 2009-09-23

Nintendo Network ID: RimeTM3DS Friend Code: 3454-0657-8756
"Let's Do the Rain Dance"
Unless humans themselves become naturally more predisposed to being better at DDR, I'd argue that being good at the game hasn't changed much since the beginning of the series. Just being able to do consistently on level 5s-8s in 1st MIX already means you've put in the time and have built up the muscle memory and accuracy to be considered not some upstart and that deserves to be noted as "good". There are obviously much more difficult things out there, but I'm of the opinion that "good" is a baseline thing, not a shifting percentile.

Post #57 · Posted at 2018-02-19 09:43:19pm 6.1 years ago

Offline akio
akio Avatar Member
388 Posts
United States
Reg. 2010-11-08

As someone who JUST got to the point where I can comfortably play most 13s, it fills me with great pride to know that I'll be considered absolute dogshit until I'm able to MFC Endymion Challenge , blindfolded, on shuffle. Y'all are a trip.


On topic though, it's difficult to discuss this without it turning into "PLS REVIVE MY FAVORITE SONG KOMONEY PLSSSSS". Personally I love DDR Ace. I love the interface and the song selection is pretty sweet and it feels good to see that full combo splash. It's just a really fun game for fun people and I'm glad it exists.

Quickman is right though. The unlock system is a kinda booty. Having 30% of the songs in the game being locked behind a 4-life barrier sucks, but the mechanics behind Extra Savior sort of make up for it. It would be nice if we never got anything like the New Generation folder ever again. Having to unlock a set of songs chart by chart is probably the most Konami thing I've ever experienced in DDR, and if it weren't for Heat Level 3 I wouldn't be as far as I am in that folder. I've been playing for a year and I'm still only at the Standard level for the songs there. It's not fun.


Revive Kind Lady pls
Quote: MENDES
The year is 20XX, everyone dances to TAS levels of perfection. because of this matches are solely decided by how little baby powder the individual player uses

Post #58 · Posted at 2018-02-19 11:33:03pm 6.1 years ago

Offline Marukomuru
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18 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2012-09-28

Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-8269-3075-0319
"Double-Beginner Brackets"
Actually you shouldn't play it on Shuffle, because that might remove some of the crossovers and it won't be considered "legit". Also, don't forget to use the flat noteskin and make sure guidelines and screen filter are turned off. Roll Eyes Laughing Out Loud

(I'm kidding don't hurt me)

Anyway... more genres would be nice. I could play Touhou songs all day, but let's get some rock or metal in there.
Rinon's Adventure should give us progress for every song like Babylon's Adventure (just without the first play/etc bonuses), and New Generation could be improved by letting us unlock the Difficult chart right off the bat, as opposed to the Basic chart first, THEN the Difficult.

Also Make It Better needs a Challenge 15
There is a point where all of this needs to stop, and we've clearly passed it.

Post #59 · Posted at 2018-02-20 12:22:07am 6.1 years ago

Offline rayword45
rayword45 Avatar Member
489 Posts
Not Set
Reg. 2011-08-29

They should bring back edits, and run a stepping contest with votes or something, winner gets their chart in-game. (It'd be funny if somehow a chart with hands or something won, yes I remember how those happened in X2 I'm not being ignorant)

...And yeah say it again, hire some steppers from somewhere else, do it like how they did Universe 3.

Post #60 · Posted at 2018-02-20 12:29:54am 6.1 years ago

Offline Harman Smith
Harman Smith Avatar Member
214 Posts
Not Set
Reg. 2017-09-11

"What If You Had A Gun?"
Edit Mode absolutely needs to come back to arcades. I'd also like to see custom, share-able courses come back, those were neat back in X.
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