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The 7th KONAMI Arcade Championship

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Post #41 · Posted at 2018-01-13 04:30:20pm 5.4 months ago

Offline Quickman
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- Semi final song picks are done by picking two random players and letting them choose the songs.

"two random" almost certainly implies "not fungah" since this whole ruleset has been about shitting on american players specifically

Couldn't agree more. It's gonna be two JP players. Let's not even entertain the possibility that this is ACTUALLY "random".
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Post #42 · Posted at 2018-01-13 06:53:22pm 5.4 months ago

Offline Zowayix
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Hang on, I thought only the East Japan and West Japan regions compete in the semifinals, and Asia, South Korea, and North America representatives go straight to the finals. So the second rule shouldn't affect anything, but the first rule sure would.

Actually wait, even if semifinal means "the first of 2 rounds in the finals" instead of "the round(s) before the finals", the second rule still would have no effect on North America. If I remember correctly, the finals format is "bottom 4 finalists compete; the winner joins the top 3 finalists; the winner of that is the champion". Fungah! and Chris are both already in the top three.

<Roll Eyes>Technically, the first rule doesn't change anything either compared to last year's KAC, since in all likelihood there'll still be one representative each from North America, Korea, and Japan picking the three champion songs.</Roll Eyes>

Post #43 · Posted at 2018-01-14 03:07:19am 5.4 months ago

Offline Pandemonium X
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Quote: Quickman
So KAC has a rule change.

- Defending champion does not get to pick a song.
- Semi final song picks are done by picking two random players and letting them choose the songs.
- These two rules only apply to the DDR tournament.

This is complete and total bullshit. Are we expected to believe that this is anything but salt over the Americans dominating the game?
Why I want to see Chris or another non-Japan player win it. Konami has done nothing but put obstacle after obstacle to try to get the title back to Japan.
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Post #44 · Posted at 2018-01-14 03:28:07am 5.4 months ago

Offline rayword45
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I hope a non-JP player wins and roasts the everloving fuck out of Konami in their speech

Post #45 · Posted at 2018-01-14 04:32:15am 5.3 months ago

Offline PureBlue
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It's pretty much a guarantee that an American player will win again regardless of the bullshit obstacles Konami tries to put in place. So yeah, hopefully Chris or Jeff will use that platform to completely justifiably put Konami in their place.
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Post #46 · Posted at 2018-01-14 04:24:05pm 5.3 months ago

Offline PerroXX
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Uh, so they change the rules to screw the non-japanese players?...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not really worried about this tbh, and that's why:

Quote: Quickman
- Defending champion does not get to pick a song.

That's not a big deal, in terms of the meaning of the show, the Champ should be able to score all these 19Challenge, and Chris has been improving the last weeks.

Quote: Quickman
- Semi final song picks are done by picking two random players and letting them choose the songs.

These rules apply to the japanese players only: Semis are only between east and west japan, meanwhile the top players of other regions participates in the finals.

Quote: Quickman
- These two rules only apply to the DDR tournament.

Well, that's kinda obvious because each game host a different set of rules (for example: IIDX choose their songs randomly, SDVX choose 2 songs and one new song, and so on) ... really guys, we know Konami likes to screw the non-JP players but this is an unnecesary witch hunt

Post #47 · Posted at 2018-01-16 09:23:56am 5.3 months ago

Offline CJM
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People here are mistaking semifinals for Japanese regional finals that will take place 27th/28th this month. First they weed out 3 players out of 14 in Japan, then pit them against Fungah, FEFEMZ and Rinon in Semis, then three of those move on to the final to fight Chris for the title.
As pants on head retarded as those rules are, there's no reason to panic as far as Fungah is concerned. Consider the worst case scenario of both song picks in the semis landing in Japanese players' hands and them picking something like Valkyrie Dimension + Over The Period. As much as FEFEMZ and Brosoni would be guaranteed to go through, kicking Jeff out would require one of Rinon and two other Japanese players to outperform him, which is a very tall order even on charts he struggles with. Remember we're talking about the most consistent MA player in the world, who could easily make up for two dozen misses with a low perfect count thanks to EX Score's broken mechanics, versus players who will clearly have no business being in the final. There's always a possibility of him choking, but this can happen to anyone, even FEFEMZ.
Speaking of FEFEMZ, despite betting on him last year and losing, I will bet even more on him this KAC. His MA has heavily improved since last year, and while he's still inconsistent on things he doesn't grind, this won't a problem in the finals where he and his opponents only have around ten if not less viable picks. Even if Endymion won't be selectable he could still grind Over The Period and especially Valkyrie Dimension for the rest of January and use one of those two as an almost-guaranteed autowin.
I can make two very reliable predictions about song picks: 1. Egoism 440 and Paranoia Revolution will definitely not be picked, as that would be an autowin and a heavy boon respectively for Chris, 2. FEFEMZ will pick Endymion, VD or OTP. Brosoni and Fungah however are a mystery, I could honestly see them picking some niche 18s and hope both Chris and FEFEMZ choke on them. Regardless of what they pick, they still need to practice VD and OTP to keep up with FEFEMZ (and so does Chris) and pretty much pray about Endymion not being available, unless they can grind it on Stepmania/ITG.

Post #48 · Posted at 2018-01-16 01:52:32pm 5.3 months ago

Offline Zowayix
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Wait, when/where did they announce another change to the finals rules? It used to be "7 finalists split into top 3 and bottom 4, bottom 4 compete, winner faces the top 3", but now it's going to be "7 finalists split into top 1 and bottom 6, bottom 6 compete, three winners face the top 1"? (where top 1 is Chris being the defending champion)

EX Score isn't broken; it's specifically used so that a player with 50 Perfects and 0 Greats doesn't beat a player with 0 Perfects and 1 Great. It's a higher level version of the old, old "FC == AA" mechanic where a player with 100 Greats and 0 Goods would lose to a player with 0 Greats and 1 Good.

From the Ace For AcesHeavy livestream, there's a chance that FEFEMZ is going to pick NeutrinoChallenge with its 205 BPM 24ths and 32nd ending. It's the only 18 that Chris hasn't PFC'd.

Post #49 · Posted at 2018-01-16 02:54:08pm 5.3 months ago

Offline Meseki
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Quote: Zowayix
EX Score isn't broken; it's specifically used so that a player with 50 Perfects and 0 Greats doesn't beat a player with 0 Perfects and 1 Great. It's a higher level version of the old, old "FC == AA" mechanic where a player with 100 Greats and 0 Goods would lose to a player with 0 Greats and 1 Good.

With EX Score giving 3 for Marvelouses, Goods and Misses likely have the exact same value, as opposed to Misses being negative so that they can be more punishing than Goods.
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Post #50 · Posted at 2018-01-16 03:26:11pm 5.3 months ago

Offline Quickman
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EX score is ten times better than money score and should honestly replace money score on the leaderboards. A 2p 1g run should be WR over a 10p PFC.
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Post #51 · Posted at 2018-01-16 08:39:22pm 5.3 months ago

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1 miss being as bad as mere 3 perfects looks just as absurd to me as 100-300 perfects. If anything the score weights should be based on the size of timing windows. Something like 60 / 56 / 45 / 30 / 0 from best to worst judgement makes a miss as bad as 15 perfects and a great as bad as 3.75 perfects. How I obtained these weights (warning: wall of text):
For starters, it's much more convenient to think of scoring in terms of how much you lose by getting any judgement worse than the best one than what you gain by taking a judgement better than the worst one.
The size of timing windows is 2 / 4 / 13 / 19 frames from MA to Good. We would normally be considering either specific early or late errors and therefore halve these values, but because we should only care about their size relative to size of the best window, we can leave those values as they are.
Let's consider a scenario where all steps land exactly in the middle of each window. This changes the above to 1 / 3 / 8.5 / 16. Doubling this so we only operate on integer numbers gives 2 / 6 / 17 / 32.
Subtract 2 from all so that MA is the baseline and negate all numbers, so we operate on losses. This gives 0 / -4 / -15 / -30.
There's no specific timing for a miss - it just happens whenever you step later than max late Good. I've simply arbitrarily assumed it should be twice as bad as Good, therefore its negative weight would be -60.
Finally, since we want to operate on gains instead of losses, add 60 to all.
If these weights look too confusing, you could approximate 1 great to being as bad as 4 perfects and get 16 / 15 / 12 / 8 / 0 - still pretty accurate.

Post #52 · Posted at 2018-01-16 09:38:30pm 5.3 months ago

Offline Zowayix
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I could get behind a 16 / 15 / 12 / 8 / 0 scoring system. Not too different from ITG which would be effectively 17 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 0 here.

Post #53 · Posted at 2018-01-17 02:53:43am 5.3 months ago

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Post #54 · Posted at 2018-01-17 05:38:16am 5.2 months ago

Offline Zowayix
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So I finally found out where the rule change notifications have been coming from: looks like Konami put the new semifinals and finals rules into an email and sent it to all the players who qualified (without putting the new rules up on their website? Roll Eyes), and Fungah's been translating and tweeting them.

Most (not all) of this is a repeat, but here's a region-by-region breakdown of every rule change so far that's screwed over North America:

- (old) The whole extra region restrictions thing that started it all. Last year's 7 semifinalists were 2 Japan, 1 South Korea, 1 Asia, and 3 North America. Now it's forced to 3 Japan, 1 South Korea, 1 Asia, and 2 North America. Guess which region specifically has +1 representative, and which region specifically has -1 representative.

- Semifinals are now 6 players instead of 4, so there are no longer 3 players who get byes. Last year's byes were 1 Japan, 1 South Korea, and 1 North America. Without this rule, this year's byes (assuming score-based) would've been 0 Japan, 1 South Korea, and 2 North America, but not anymore. Guess which region specifically has +1 representative, and which region specifically has -1 representative.

- The two semifinals songs are now picked by 2 random players instead of the top 2. Last year this was 2 North American players. Without this rule, this year would've been 1 North American player (Fungah) and 1 South Korean player (FEFEMZ). Now the chance that Fungah gets to pick a semifinals song is only ~33% (down from 100%), and the chance that at least one Japan player gets to pick a semifinals song is 80% (up from 0%).

- The three finals songs are now picked by the semifinals winners, so Chris doesn't get a pick. Last year the finals pickers (= byes) were 1 North American player (Chris), 1 South Korean player (FEFEMZ), and 1 Japan player (BROSONI). Without this rule, this year's finals pickers would've been (extrapolated) FEFEMZ, Chris, and Fungah, but now it's (extrapolated) BROSONI, FEFEMZ, and Fungah. Again, guess which region specifically has +1 representative, and which region specifically has -1 representative.

- A new rule that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet: Finals are now scored by relative rank instead of raw EX score, and the finalist with the best rank sum is the champion (instead of the finalist with the best EX score sum). This means that 1st place always counts as 1 and 2nd place always counts as 2 (lowest rank sum wins), no matter how much you win or lose by. If you come in 2nd place twice and 1st place once (rank sum 5), you lose to someone who came in 2nd place once and 1st place twice (rank sum 4). This seems to specifically go after the strategy Chris used to win last year's KAC, where he lost to FEFEMZ on DEGRS and ParaRevo by a total of 35 points, but then beat him on Egoism 440 by 66 points, for a total margin of victory of +31 points.

- (speculation, and possibly too bullshitty even for Konami, but it's just plausible enough) The rules also say that if two players tie for champion (easy now that it's based on rank sum), the player who qualified the best will win. There's a loophole here: Chris was never required to qualify, so his qualification score has no effect and he "never qualified" (he was eligible for the finals without qualifying). A rulesharker (*cough* Konami judge *cough*) could easily twist this into "If Chris and another player ties for champion, Chris automatically loses the tiebreaker".


Five rules to screw over North America, plus a sixth based on speculation. The last two are especially bad, apparently custom-tailored to target Chris directly and no one else. I was only a little miffed before, but now I'm actually mad.

Post #55 · Posted at 2018-01-17 05:49:32am 5.2 months ago

Offline Pandemonium X
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If they are going this far to screw over North America, I can't imagine what they have planned for the contest itself. I hope Chris or someone not from Japan still wins this because this is flat out ridiculous.
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Post #56 · Posted at 2018-01-17 06:09:20am 5.2 months ago

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Post #57 · Posted at 2018-01-17 06:21:44am 5.2 months ago

Offline Pandemonium X
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What's the matter, guys? You don't liked rigged competitions?

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I'm just laughing at this point seeing how butt hurt Konami is about this to the point that they are willing to rig the DDR competition so America doesn't win again.
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Post #58 · Posted at 2018-01-17 06:34:39am 5.2 months ago

Offline NewbStepper
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Not sure whether I want to laugh or be really ticked reading these rules KONMAI puts in place to make the tournament more unfair than ever. I can't imagine the rules for next year if Chris somehow wins again.
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Post #59 · Posted at 2018-01-17 06:42:28am 5.2 months ago

Offline SomethingRandom
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honestly I don't care anymore, stop supporting konami's garbage practices

Post #60 · Posted at 2018-01-17 07:03:45am 5.2 months ago

Offline JanoDx
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I just want FEFEMZ, Chris or Fungah to win and shut Konami off now. I don't care who of those 3 win. They go this far so NA or KR doesn't get the W again that they just rig everything, and also they rig so Chris has it even harder than ever.

If they really want the Japanese win, just say it Konami, just say you want Japan to win, pick Japan only competition, because since FEFEMZ appeared Japan hasn't won a KAC on DDR, and now that America entered the competition, it's near impossible for Japan to win.
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