DanceDanceRevolution A (AC)

So... Are we talking about the songs that mixes introduced, or the overall songlist? The SN games and X have many of the popular olds songs that were removed later on, so I say they win a few points in my favor.

Also, we're all forgetting DDR 1st mix. Grandfather clause, sure, but when you look at it, it's only got 12 songs, 2 difficulties, and no mods. I'd call that the worst DDR mix. Probably going to regret saying this...

Small factual error, 1stMIX 1.0 had 9 songs (PARANOiA was the only KO!) and 2 difficulties, while 1.5/Internet Ranking Ver. introduced MAKE IT BETTER and TRIP MACHINE as well as MANIAC difficulty for 11 songs and 3 difficulties.

I don't see why you should regret saying that. Just because it's important doesn't mean that in retrospect it isn't awful. Look at beatmania, the very first BEMANI game. This is the hardest it got. Not counting 2P versions of songs or tutorial stuff, there were 8 songs and only one chart for each except for u gotta groove and jam jam reggae which could be played on both 1P and 2P. Obviously it's importance doesn't change that in retrospect it really isn't that great, but it serves as a good starting point for what we would all know and love. Same goes for DDR 1st.

Anyways, the main thing we're talking about is the quality of the charts for new songs. If we're going to talk about new songs regardless of their charts though, I like 4th and 5th the best, which is helped by some really good beatmania crossovers on top of some fairly good KOs, though 5thMIX is hurt by removing a lot of old songs for space.

As far as charts go though I have no real favorite since I have complaints about the charting in literally every DDR for one reason or another. I actually don't have as big of a problem with SN1 as others seem to though. FAXX is awful and they should have used it's for something other than a 1% simpler but I don't have any other major gripes. To me all the other charts I've seen/played were at least decent, but it just started the trend of ARROW SPAM BPM GIMMICK WHO CARES ABOUT IF THE STEPS GO TO THE MUSIC AT ALL boss charts which we (hopefully) all despise and I get the impression that's why everyone hates it.

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Ah, charting quality... Yeah, every era had its issues. Pre-MAX had tons of spins (Trip Machine and Celebrate Nite, I'm glaring menacingly at you...), SN had BPM gimmicks (honestly, I enjoy them when done right), and recent DDR just does whatever the heck it wants. (Cleopatrysm would be a 14 if it was actually charted well) Admittedly though, I honestly don't really remember that many charts. Every era has had good charts and bad charts, I guess SN is just remembered for its BPM gimmick heavy bosses, and X is remembered for, well, being X. But then again, it's not like I really played any of the songs from SN and X, so there's not much I can say. (I need to give Saber Wing a try, though)

Thanks for the correction, by the way. Totally forgot about the internet ranking version.

After playing through all the Pre-X2 songs still on DDR A, I definitely noticed a positive shift in the charts after MAX came out. If nothing else, the inclusion of freeze arrows made the charts a lot better and made a lot of new arrow combinations possible. Also, pre-MAX songs suffer from streams that are also sometimes crossovers, which are just not fun. I feel like MAX2 did a pretty good job charting the challenge specials, and most of the EXTREME charts are good even if they are easier by todays standards. Supernova songs seem to be very hit or miss, but most of them are decent and there's a lot of variance. A lot of people hate on the SN gimmicks, but they really help to give songs a unique feel (Innocence of Silence). The only real constant across mixes is that the licenses are always underwhelming. Sure, a few of them from each mix will be good, but most of them are meh at best and then get removed for licensing issues on the next mix.

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As someone who doesn't really hate bpm gimmicks and isn't really bothered by green arrow syndrome (obviously it would be better if it didn't exist though), I think the SN1/2 songs we still have in Ace have pretty good charts. SN2 in particular I really like the boss songs for how much they just sound evil and threatening... except for NGO. NGO is just atrocious. I can kinda appreciate DEGRS for what it is, but I feel like NGO's challenge charts have no redeeming qualities.

Other than that though, I don't think it's controversial to say that charting really took off in X2. Aside from Pluto the First, pretty much every chart in that game in amazing. Same going for X3 and on. Most of the games since X2 seem to be padding out the difficulty curve above 12s, which nothing Pre-X ever really touched. There's so many good charts in X2/3 to help transitioning from 12s to 13s and 13s to 14s, and it seems like 2013 and 2014 help to make 14-15 and 15-16 even easier.

Thinking about it now, it's not really surprising then that Ace is adding so many 16s and easier 17s into the mix. Getting more 17s without bpm gimmicks to ease the transition is pretty nice.

I've worked with David Lee (NineVoltBattery, or Ninevolt) on DDRCommunity's DDR difficulty tier lists, adding the Doubles 17, 18, and 19 lists with help from a few fellow doubles players.

http://ddrcommunity.com/ddr-difficulty-tier-list/

Single 13 and 14 lists coming soon.

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Totally original post, 10/10. (Real answer: no.)

There were still decent charts in Supernova (even if the game felt rushed and needed several patches to get playable) outside of the boss charts, but then Supernova 2 came around and nearly killed my enjoyment of the entire arcade franchise. Stuff like Unreal's Single Expert chart (how was that a 9 on the old scale??), NGO's Challenge charts, and Dead End Groove Radar are among the worst charts the series has ever seen. The one and only chart I can remember having fun with in that was A thing called LOVE's Single Expert. X's songlist might have been utter trash outside of a few decent ones (Saber Wing and Flourish were decent enough), but I'd rather play those charts than Supernova 2's.

I actually really liked X2 AC, from what I've played of it. I was never as invested with the later games following, but none ever came close to Supernova 2 chart levels ever again.

Singles 13 and 14 lists are available!

http://ddrcommunity.com/ddr-difficulty-tier-list/

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Of course bag is a 13.9

The weirdest thing I find about these tier lists is that some of the songs that are supposedly harder to time are songs that I can do better at than songs that are supposedly easier to time. I can get an AA on MAX 300 (15.5), while I've yet to reach the ability to clear Shakunetsu Beach-Side Bunny (15.3). Of course, I guess this can be attributed to the fact that I'm a gamer, not an athlete...

Also, may I ask about what happened with Right On Time's rating?

Right on time 's rating is intentional, due to the chart's nature. It stands on its own.

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Yeah, some people apparently find Right on Time S- easy, while I find it personally harder than the 14 S-, personally.

It's also one of the few shock arrow charts that's both memorable and not in a completely stupid manner for me.

EDIT:

Remember that this list is PFC difficulty, not 'barely able to clear the level' difficulty - I can tell you in advance that in terms of learning to pass, Triple Journey S- is a 16.9, it's way harder than basically every other 16 footer. Also, in terms of just 'flailing passes', FELM is much much harder than FAXX (S- both songs).

Now that I've seen the chart, I totally understand. That is the perfect tier rating for a song like that.

All of the mixes have good songs/charts, and bad songs/charts. A lot of that gets swept under the rug as time goes on, and songs are removed from mixes; and now it's even getting unobvious that some licensed tracks had freaking AMAZING charts (looking at 3rd Mix, 4th Mix PLUS, DDRMAX/MAX2, and X). And yes, it's constantly being revised and invented upon.

For instance, the Shock Arrow hate. Shock Arrow charts *themselves* aren't bad. But X1 *used* them TERRIBLY, by simply being copypastes of existing charts with them inserted in, rather than being their own routines (in the cases of X2 and beyond). Also, you really can't judge the content of an entire game version simply by it's leftovers that are still intact. Kick The Can, Dream A Dream, Only You, Young Forever, and Boom Boom Dollar would be laughed at if they were first released today - but those were the bread and butter of their time, and made the foundations of tracks being made even now, such as Far East Nightbird (kors k remix).

Personally, I simply see 1st Mix as a necessary "proof-of-concept;" and even Konami themselves tout "2nd Mix" around like it's their first full, complete "DDR game." It was really 3rd Mix that got DDR established though, and really polished up and challenging.


SuperNOVA 2 boss song ratings don't count and we all know it. Unreal a 9 was the same person who thought PARANOiA (HADES) was 9 and was 8; and clearly not the person who thought Uranus was 10, and Blind Justice was 8. But just for kicks! If we did retrofit today's tracklist in a 1-10 system, with stuff like 18s and 19s becoming the new 10s... MAX 300 would now be an 8, and PARANOiA would be somewhere around 5-6. Just think about THAT, now!

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Doubles 15 and 16 lists have been added. It's going to be a while until the DP 13 and 14 lists are posted.

http://ddrcommunity.com/ddr-difficulty-tier-list/

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Totally agree as well about the licenses part. We know why they are removed from future mixes and that some of the best charts are in fact licenses [Freckles, Cartoon Heroes, Rhythm & Police are probably my top 3]. It's probably why a newbie to DDR would go back and look at the early mixes and say the game sucked then due to the limited tracks and they're "boring". I hope Konami does a good revival list for the 20th anniversary of DDR but who knows.

I already did my ranting about ratings but that's something we can argue all day about.

imo i think the opposite, the earlier mixes were more western-oriented, so a newbie might like them

they won't like 2013 or 2014 due to the insane amount of Hinabitter or touhou tracks tho

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When is route 80s coming to AC though? That's the important question.

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From what I gather, a lot of Japanese were 'meh' on Hinabitter as well.

oh haha, makes me wonder why konami keeps adding them but whatever

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I dunno, the 3 different occasions I played on an A machine, Hinabitter, Touhou, and a few of the more cutesy Beatstream songs were quite popular. There's probably some bias there since two of those three occasions were in Hawaii, but they were pretty popular from what I could gather in Arizona.

I think it's only weeaboos like us that play non-redemption arcade games at this point, however.