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Score Tracker for Console-Exclusive Songs?

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Post #21 · Posted at 2012-10-04 09:56:17pm 11.4 years ago

Offline Silverhawke
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Last updated: 2012-10-04 09:56pm
Quote: XmatthewX
we need it

who
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Post #22 · Posted at 2012-10-04 11:40:14pm 11.4 years ago

Offline bmhedgehog
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Quote: Silverhawke
Quote: XmatthewX
we need it

who

Don't ask, just roll with it. Even if you don't want it, just roll with it.

Post #23 · Posted at 2012-10-05 06:31:04am 11.4 years ago

Offline XmatthewX
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Quote: Silverhawke
Quote: XmatthewX
we need it

who
People that can't actually get to arcades all the times.

Post #24 · Posted at 2012-10-05 06:35:48am 11.4 years ago

Offline KNS-17
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Need vs. Want
You WANT a CS score tracker, but you don't NEED it. I won't go any further, but it's as simple as that. You'll be waiting a long time for this even if Alan gives it the ok.
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Post #25 · Posted at 2012-10-05 07:35:08am 11.4 years ago

Offline bmhedgehog
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Quote: KNS-17
Need vs. Want
You WANT a CS score tracker, but you don't NEED it. I won't go any further, but it's as simple as that. You'll be waiting a long time for this even if Alan gives it the ok.
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Post #26 · Posted at 2012-10-05 10:56:46am 11.4 years ago

Offline XmatthewX
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Quote: KNS-17
Need vs. Want
You WANT a CS score tracker, but you don't NEED it. I won't go any further, but it's as simple as that. You'll be waiting a long time for this even if Alan gives it the ok.
Yeah and people didn't need a arcade tracker but theirs one. More people will use the CS one because of the lack of arcades.

Post #27 · Posted at 2012-10-05 11:08:06am 11.4 years ago

Offline xXMokou98Xx
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This is a cute argument. Everyone shut up.
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Post #28 · Posted at 2012-10-05 12:03:17pm 11.4 years ago

Offline bmhedgehog
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Quote: xXMokou98Xx
This is a cute argument. Everyone shut up.
No. I've got a good feeling this fight is going to the bitter end.

Post #29 · Posted at 2012-10-05 12:16:03pm 11.4 years ago

Offline Arrows&Beats
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I play on console almost all of the time, but I don't even care if this gets implemented. Just putting my two cents in.
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Post #30 · Posted at 2012-10-05 01:26:08pm 11.4 years ago

Offline KNS-17
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Quote: bmhedgehog
Quote: xXMokou98Xx
This is a cute argument. Everyone shut up.
No. I've got a good feeling this fight is going to the bitter end.

This "argument" isn't even an argument, we already settled on the page prior that this idea can't be done right now.
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Post #31 · Posted at 2012-10-05 02:40:08pm 11.4 years ago

Offline ledgam3r1279
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Quote: KNS-17
Quote: bmhedgehog
Quote: xXMokou98Xx
This is a cute argument. Everyone shut up.
No. I've got a good feeling this fight is going to the bitter end.

This "argument" isn't even an argument, we already settled on the page prior that this idea can't be done right now.

No we haven't. I can see the concerns everyone is having about this, but for now, I want to see if we can iron out some of the issues here before coming to a definite conclusion. [wall of text incoming]

Quote: donosean
Honesty of the player is always a factor, not everyone puts up proof for every score on the AC tracker. I just do it for PFCs, since those are the only scores that are likely to be considered false otherwise

Same here, though I still see plenty of scores in the arcade rankings without proof attached to them, and we don't make a fuss about them if those scores are either not AAAs or from someone we trust. Honesty is just something we have to deal with no matter whether it's from a CS or AC game.

Quote: Max
2) Types of mats you use. Soft/Plastic mats can get you one score while people who have metal/hard mats may get another. AC tracker has no issue with this because they ALL are metal pads.

Why is this an issue? If scores are done on a pad regardless of the type, they still count.
Also, do we really need to replicate the scoring systems for each different game, or can we keep using the current scoring that we have for the AC score tracker and apply them to console games as well? It's the same for all arcade mixes regardless of the scoring in each mix, so why should we create a new one now?

Besides that, I think my biggest concern would be the database problem as, in the case of DDR II (Wii) especially, many of the CS-exclusive songs (and, in the case of DDR II, London EVOLVED Challenge ) have their stepcount information in the database missing and there seems to be no differentiation between the short/long versions of each applicable song.
Here's my solution, though I don't if this will work: if anyone wants to submit a (passing) score for a song with missing stepcount information, they can still enter their score and the stepcounts (and shock arrow count if needed) can be generated based on that (of course, the staff can still approve/change these stepcounts as needed).

Basically, I think we can just keep the AC tracker system we have now, but we just need to add more songs into the database to accomodate this and decide who is willing to fill in the blanks.

In comparison, I think the reason why jubeat is able to have both AC and CS trackers is because:
-we get enter our scores directly as there is no way to determine how many "perfects" or "greats" we have [no worrying about "stepcounts" or combos in the tracker]
-AC and CS scores are already separated in the rankings [So this should be easy to implement into DDR.]
-even though I rarely see proof on the jubeat tracker, there is pretty much no suspicion when someone gets an Excellent because an Excellent on jubeat is somewhat easier than a PFC in DDR

Sorry for the long post, but I think we need to resolve this once and for all if we are going to decide if this can be implemented, if at all.
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Post #32 · Posted at 2012-10-05 03:22:47pm 11.4 years ago

Offline KNS-17
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So, we're just gonna keep going I suppose until everyone gets tired of this. Ok.

Quote: xXMokou98Xx
If I had to describe this entire concept, i'd mark it under "Practical, but not currently feasible".

Yes, this can be done, and the tracker would work with the same process as the AC tracker. Nobody's saying it can't be done.
But understand, this is not an easy task, Alan would have to spend a lot of time on it, so it's not likely to happen anytime soon.
If you care to speed up the process, why not ask him directly? I'm sure he'd be able to give you a response quickly.
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Post #33 · Posted at 2012-10-05 04:37:31pm 11.4 years ago

Offline Silverhawke
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Last updated: 2012-10-05 04:49pm
Quote: KNS-17
Need vs. Want
You WANT a CS score tracker, but you don't NEED it. I won't go any further, but it's as simple as that. You'll be waiting a long time for this even IF Alan gives it the ok.

just for people who don't understand how huge the "if" is.

Quote: XmatthewX
Yeah and people didn't need an arcade tracker but theirs there's one. More people will use the CS one because of the lack of arcades.

http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/scorecounts.php
http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/userlist.php

Based on data retrieved at 5 Oct 2012 17:19 PM SGT (GMT+8), the top 50 score counts out of 9206 users here (that's 0.543%) have submitted a total of 35470 scores.

Feeding the data to generate a best fit line, Excel suggests me that y = -437.8ln (x) + 2009.5.

This means that y = 0 when x is roughly 98.494.

Now let's see the predicted amount of scores in ZIv. Feeding that to WolframAlpha gives me that the amount of scores submitted by user rank 51 ~ 98 is 6096 scores.

So the total amount of scores (predicted of course) is 35,470 + 6,096 = 41,566 scores, averaging at 4.515 scores per user.

Now tell me that people didn't need an arcade score tracker.

EDIT: Oh look, Word of God.
Quote
17:47:55 · al2k4: CS score tracker raises a ton of questions
17:48:14 · al2k4: rankings would be useless if we can't differentiate between controller and pad
17:48:18 · al2k4: and proofs are useless
17:48:25 · al2k4: unless you have a video
17:48:48 · KNS-17: also, I imagine it would take a long time to set up
17:49:00 · al2k4: unless rankings are disabled and is used only for personal record keeping
17:49:06 · al2k4: yes it would
17:49:16 · al2k4: DDR score tracker was only coded with AC in mind at the time
17:49:23 · al2k4: to extend it, is not the easiest task

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Post #34 · Posted at 2012-10-05 04:56:46pm 11.4 years ago

Offline KNS-17
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Last updated: 2012-10-05 04:59pm
So, yeah.

Take it away, 60's Spiderman!
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Post #35 · Posted at 2012-10-06 04:43:38am 11.4 years ago

Offline bmhedgehog
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Last updated: 2012-10-06 04:45am
Well if Ranking is going to be a problem then I'm all for elminating it. Ranking is just one more thing for a few or some (not all or everybody, speaking in general of course since I cannot speak for everyone) people to use as a means to gloat about their Mad DDR skills. I, for one, can live without a Ranking system. Also Alan shouldn't have to be the only one to set this up I think almost everyone should pitch-in.

Post #36 · Posted at 2012-10-06 06:22:35am 11.4 years ago

Offline ledgam3r1279
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Quote: bmhedgehog
Well if Ranking is going to be a problem then I'm all for elminating it. Ranking is just one more thing for a few or some (not all or everybody, speaking in general of course since I cannot speak for everyone) people to use as a means to gloat about their Mad DDR skills. I, for one, can live without a Ranking system. Also Alan shouldn't have to be the only one to set this up I think almost everyone should pitch-in.

I never really cared about my ranking for arcade scores either simply because of bragging rights for only a few players and many AC scores don't have proof either.

Nevertheless, if the main concern for a CS score tracker is the fact that playing on a controller is easier than playing than on a pad (from which none of the other games suffer), I can see how this alone would disqualify many scores in the CS tracker. But if we took away the rankings, the issue would be less serious / we wouldn't care as much because we would worry more about our own scores and not others, how many people are better/worse than you.

And has anyone ever used the "Battle" function in the score tracker? Pretty useless IMO. Most of the time, there couldn't be any contests simply because one person has played a certain song and chart while another person hasn't (due to different mixes, etc.).
And for those that do, one person could have an advantage simply from playing on an arcade with better pads. Another reason why I think rankings are not as important as they seem to be.
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Post #37 · Posted at 2012-10-06 08:21:38am 11.4 years ago

Offline XmatthewX
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Quote: bmhedgehog
Well if Ranking is going to be a problem then I'm all for elminating it.
Bingo. That would save a lot of time

Post #38 · Posted at 2012-10-06 09:31:52am 11.4 years ago

Offline xXMokou98Xx
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Quote: KNS-17
If you care to speed up the process, why not ask [Alan] directly? I'm sure he'd be able to give you a response quickly.

Why don't you guys just do ^^THIS^^?
If you really think you have a solid solution for this, go directly to Alan and tell him so.
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Post #39 · Posted at 2012-10-06 09:36:06am 11.4 years ago

Offline Max
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Last updated: 2012-10-06 09:36am
Quote: xXMokou98Xx
Quote: KNS-17
If you care to speed up the process, why not ask [Alan] directly? I'm sure he'd be able to give you a response quickly.

Why don't you guys just do ^^THIS^^?
If you really think you have a solid solution for this, go directly to Alan and tell him so.

Uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh...

Quote
17:47:55 · al2k4: CS score tracker raises a ton of questions
17:48:14 · al2k4: rankings would be useless if we can't differentiate between controller and pad
17:48:18 · al2k4: and proofs are useless
17:48:25 · al2k4: unless you have a video
17:48:48 · KNS-17: also, I imagine it would take a long time to set up
17:49:00 · al2k4: unless rankings are disabled and is used only for personal record keeping
17:49:06 · al2k4: yes it would
17:49:16 · al2k4: DDR score tracker was only coded with AC in mind at the time
17:49:23 · al2k4: to extend it, is not the easiest task

Post #40 · Posted at 2012-10-06 04:36:53pm 11.4 years ago

Offline Silverhawke
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[/thread]
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