What do you mean when you say

I do fear that many people today have a some what prehistoric view for DDR. This is mostly the cause of the fact anything higher than SN1 is hard to find in the western world. I just hope that people aren't judging DDR by the standards of Extreme or SN. Since then they have introduced marvelous timing (For any ITG player who claims DDR is too easy, I invite you to try MFCing some songs on any difficulty), screen filters, Speed mods from .5x-8x going up by .5 increments, changing speed mods pre-song (this really does save a lot of time not going to the options menu), etc.

The original ITG 1 and 2 didn't even put good speed mods in the game. This was actually surprising to me that the team at roxor never officially made extra speed mods as well as maybe adjusting mods during or before songs.


Is DDR perfect? Of course not. Is ITG better? Deppends on what you call ITG. Are we talking about the official released games from RoXor? Or are we talking about the hacking that has been done to allow custom songs (not done made by roxor), custom speed options(not made by roxor), custom themes (...ok you get my point), etc.

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Could That statement be any more true? Most arcades in the U.S have a DDR Extreme, a DDR Megamix, or if you're a very lucky person, you might find an SN1 machine. Where I live, I'd have to drive EIGHT HOURS to get to a DDR X machine.

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I have to drive pretty far to get to newer machines. Not 8 hours though. I would be able to go to one of those machines if my parents would let me drive out of town. Same with ITG.

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Same in the UK, and probably the EU. Especially at the most popular mixes are STILL the Euromixes that came out in 2000 and 2002.

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I lived in Germany for a summer, and they did not have any DDR or ITG to be found. There was a PIU machine on the Air Force base, but I fail at PIU. Is PIU harder than DDR and ITG? I heard the foot rating went into the 20s.

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I agree with you Dr. D. ITG 1/2 as it is intended is a inferior product by today's standard. To say ITG is better because hackability would be like saying a Honda Civic is better than a Porsche because you modded your Civic to have a bigger engine, spoiler, afterburner, blah blah. Yes, ITG has R21 but this was never an intended feature and we can all agree it was put in only because they were losing their product, otherwise a move such as this would ruin any arcade's reason to upgrade to newer ITGs. So I do not consider R21 as an intended feature.

I do like DDR more mostly for the overall product. A lot of people focus solely on getting the highest score on the highest song. I focus on maneuvering in a chart that's tricky. I like to spin, turn, crossover, face away from the screen and just literally "perform". DDR charts seem to focus more on your body position where as ITG seems to focus more on rhythm (hence a lot of facing left/right most of the time charts). I've played ITG but it just never grabbed me. After playing ITG for several days, going back to DDR was much harder. My PA was off, I became more tired, I generally felt as if I had lost some stamina.

But all in all, it does seem people prefer ITG for it's hackability. Rarely do you find an ITG machine that's not be violated in someway.

The problem with the older games are that they are harder to play. The arrows on the pad are really small, and when you have big feet, its often hard to even clear a song on / when I can do it with no problem on an SN2 machine.

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Nice

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ITG < DDR < r21/hacked ITG

Around here, people think of extreme as a good mix and SN through X as bad mixes. Not only for the various cab/pad issues, but the chart quality as well. Konami couldn't keep up with ITG players. 7 footers are not fun when you warm up with 10s. This, I think, is why people tend to look at DDR as an old game even with more releases since ITG2 came out. Konami has never had more than a few 10s (or X-scale equivalents) in a mix, and any of them that were in the game were HARD, and harder than they needed to be (HDVO is an obvious example).

Honestly, I think X2 AC addresses a lot of the issues people complain about with DDR. There's a lot more 9+ foot charts (old scale) in this mix and it would probably do better in the states if it wasn't for the series of failures Konami gave us (in the views of ITG players)

Personally, I still like DDR. I like supernova. I like DDR X2 so far. I hope there's an X2 cab within reasonable driving distance eventually. The problem is, arcade owners are actually asking the players what they want to see, and people are saying "No, don't get DDR. The pads will be awful, nobody will play it, and it will just be a waste of money. Get ITG or PIU instead."

No matter what though, I will still prefer hacked ITG over any DDR mix ever. Why? There's a DDR X2 folder on the cab I play on. That's the ONLY reason people still like ITG. If it wasn't for r21 or how easily ITG is hacked, ITG would be the failed relic. I can make a simfile at the arcade on my laptop and play it there 5 minutes later. I really like that.

I decided to get a second opinion from someone who doesn't know about this thread. (screen name edited out)

NIQRAR 10:47 pm
random question. What would you do if Phil (arcade owner) replaced the ITG cab with an X2 cab?
abcdefg 10:47 pm
ugh... hate everything :p
NIQRAR 10:47 pm
why?
abcdefg 10:48 pm
well you wouldn't be able to test yer sims anymore
NIQRAR 10:49 pm
but I'd be able to get official AAAs
abcdefg 10:50 pm
that would get old... trust me
arcade quads are similar :p

^She has been playing DDR since 2004 and ITG since ITG2 came out, and she still plays both. She even chooses songs out of our DDR folder on ITG, yet she would rather have the ITG than a new DDR cab.

I'm not saying ITG is objectively better than DDR, but for how I play dancing games and the type of charts I like to play, ITG suits my needs. You might like DDR better for other reasons. You are entitled to your opinions just as much as I am to mine. *tries to avoid the flamewar that always starts with DDR vs ITG threads*

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I'm sorry, but why would "people" think SN2 is a bad mix? I can understand SN1, even though it does have some good , for the most part and X definitely, but SN2 was a good mix. It wasn't the best, but it definitely wasn't bad.

Another reason why ITG could be viewed as superior is because of courses...

For instance WinDEU's new course "WinDEU Hates You The Movie"...


I think stuff like that blows DDR out of the water. Its very creative and makes the game even more fun then it already is.

My personal favorite is The Witch's Ball from SRT6...


Foreground changes made ITG even more crazy and fun then it was before. When I see some of the new stuff I get really excited to play the game again.

Oh and goofy stuff like this that I find...

Sure I could just play that on Stepmania... But I would much rather play it on a machine. I think just saying that is why ITG is sometimes far more superior then DDR. Of course that also means nothing in the game is official anymore though.

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The chart quality in SN2 still wasn't that great. Not to mention even at this point a lot of the new charts are 7s and 8s and the 10s are still too technical to be fun. SN2 had a few good charts for sure, but still failed to have a middle ground between the "Is this chart really just 8th note triples?" and "omgwtf crossover runs leading into awkward jumps." Basically, the easy songs were too easy and the hard songs were too hard.

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Just to make it clear, I really enjoy playing both games for different reasons.


This is essentially what all DDR vs. ITG discussions should boil down to, it's really all about your preferences. Neither game is better than the other, you just like one more than the other, period. I find it just annoying when people try to insist that one is better than the other, and the discussions go absolutely nowhere. Sure you can argue objective differences, but in the end it really doesn't matter because people have different preferences, and no amount of "objective arguing" will change their mind.

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Everything I still see being posted in favor of ITG are things that technically shouldn't be allowed in the game. To put it like this, if I were to hack a new X2 dedicab to play edits, etc, how would people react to me proclaiming that DDR is Superior to ITG? I'm sure some people will point out the flawed logic in my assertion.

I think I must make this clear again. I do in fact enjoy playing openitg. I've played the past 3 days in row in fact. My only point is that openitg/hacked itg deicabs are nothing more than a stepmania box. And if that makes it better then fine, but this was result of hacking and not one of the makers of ITG.

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Only real logic leap is that ITG naturally allows edits, not exactly hacking. Two separate issues as far as I'm concerned.

this thread is getting stupid. i dont think anyone has posted a reason why ITG is better than DDR. everyone keeps raving about stepmania in an arcade cab, but no one gives a flying fuck about bend your mind, remember december, disconnected, vertex, caddywhompus, keel over, or any other official chart or course. tthat alone says more about the quality of in the groove than i ever could.

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Its all just a opinion. We can go on for days trying to convince each other why each game is better then the other. We will all just have to agree to disagree. We all have our opinions about each game and that is pretty much what it boils down to.

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The entire ITG community now is based on hacking and custom songs. Nobody cares about officials anymore. Yes, it's essentially a Stepmania cab, but it's not like it's any different than ITG2 before r21. It's still a stepmania cab, just with "official" charts.

What sets ITG apart from stepmania cabs is the pad and monitor quality. A well maintained machine will give very few pad misses.

We know this. We don't care about stock ITG. If there's an unhacked ITG that isn't r21, nobody is going to play it.

Think of it like this. There are plenty of SMW romhacks out. Some change the appearance of levels and the overworld (themes), the levels themselves in terms of layout and sounds (music), and sometimes even custom sprites (charts). In the end, it still uses SMW's engine, so it's still technically SMW. Romhacks can put a new spin on an old game and people can customize the game to their liking using Lunar Magic. People can get really creative with their romhacks, and it's neat to see the kinds of traps, enemy placements, visuals, and of course platforming that people can come up with. SMW is an old game, but the ability to customize it has kept it new and exciting for fans of the original game. Who still plays the original game? I'm sure some people do, but today it's more about the romhacks.

Should that de-value the hacks? (either for SMW or ITG)

I don't know about you, but I don't think that at all. While you have fun playing SMW or Stock ITG/DDR, I will have fun playing TSRP2 and The Legend of Zim 4.

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this just killed your comparison, which i'll give you credit, was very damn good until this.

in the end, it still uses the SM engine, so its still technically SM.

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But stepmania doesn't come with a good set of pads, good hardware, a decent monitor, and a bar. That's what sets it apart from ITG.

Also, my comparison was ITG vs hacked ITG. I am aware that ITG is stepmania. We all know this, and no, we don't care. Whether or not it uses stepmania is irrelevant to the topic anyway.

Either way, arrowstomp is all the same. You hit arrows on the pad matching them to the arrows on the screen. What difference does it make on the cabinet you play on or the engine it runs on? It really doesn't matter. What does matter is the quality of the charts you play and if you like them. ITG lets me play whatever chart I want at the arcade, so obviously I'm going to choose that over DDR, which has a set number of songs and very few machines that support edit data (in the US).

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