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Bemani Python 2 and its many wonders

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Post #1 · Posted at 2015-08-05 08:51:12pm 8.6 years ago

Offline Doodlehead
Doodlehead Avatar Member
11 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2015-08-05

Hello fellow Bemanites (Bemanians? Bemanis?),

I am new to this site, but not new to the Bemani world. Like most, I was dragged in via addiction to DDR. That addiction hasn't stopped. Going faaaaaar back into the world of DDR Freak, Bemanistyle, etc. I may not play as much as I used to, but I still do play it and think about it often. That being said, I'm looking into making my childhood dreams come true and buying a DDR machine. Looking at a few Betson cabinets (I hear they're some of the best), and hoping to get Supernova 2. HOWEVER, I've heard a few not so good things about the Python 2... specifically with it's repairability. I'm in the IT world, very good with my way around computers and the sort, not too horrible at the wiring - think owning a DDR machine is right up my alley. Sounds like fun. What's not so fun, is I hear that if the hard drive dies on a Python 2 (hard drives die alllllll the time)... say goodbye to your Python 2 (or your hard earned cash to shovel out $1000+ for a repair... on a now $99~ PS2 Annoyed).

So, anyway... my question goes out to the savvy ones: I'm aware of the magic-gate security encryption, likely making it near impossible to throw in another hard drive and keep it going... near... impossible. But not completely. Who, if anyone, has attempted to replace this hard drive? I'd sure be hoping you can throw an SSD in there to limit hard drive failures (their rates are high), or at the very least, grab an image of the hard drive, and throw another in there, if possible. Ideally yanking the firmware off the hard drive also, and registering it as the same serial number to fool the PS2 into thinking, "hey... it's the same hard drive! neat! now booting... beeeeeep!" If Betson can 'fix' this, why can't we... The only limitation I can think of is they have some imaging software that maps the PS2 and the hard drive as one, and loads up the game... then steal your wallet.

Maybe I'm not making sense... maybe I'm confused how this works. I don't know... I haven't owned an arcade machine before, but I want to... carefully. I've been considering a 573 for sometime, as Extreme is what I grew up playing... and I love it... but I do know every single song by heart, and would like to get a newer mix... not to mention Beware's awesome Stepmania Extreme simulation nearly renders owning an Extreme Arcade a waste... maybe I'm also wrong about that, but I'd like to get Supernova 2... pretty set on it.

Thanks for hearing my thoughts... curious to know all yours. Smile

Post #2 · Posted at 2015-08-05 09:13:53pm 8.6 years ago

Offline AxelWasHere
AxelWasHere Avatar Member
1,580 Posts
United States
Reg. 2012-07-13

"No."
Well, You can buy a 573 and load it with stepmania to play the SuperNova songs and even 2014 songs. You can just load a DDR theme on it.
https://i.imgur.com/vnrpBDk.gif

Post #3 · Posted at 2015-08-06 01:32:38am 8.6 years ago

Offline NicholasNRG
NicholasNRG Avatar Member
635 Posts
Puerto Rico
Reg. 2014-06-21

"Just Play Along"
StepMania will not come close to simulating any post-SuperNOVA game for quite some time in the same way beware simulated DDR Extreme. The StepMania team has drifted away from simulating DDR, going for its own direction. Theme creators usually suck at distributing their DDR themes, and they don't always come close to the interface they're based on, with some exceptions like the DDR X2 and 2014 themes on this site which still have some details to take care of. Extra Stage systems are a hassle to set up, and 3D dancers are out of the question unless a batch of compressed video captures with the game interface cropped out and the same dance routines is your thing. There's also challenge and nonstop courses, timing windows, scoring systems, etc. Not everyone just wants a set of arrows on the screen with music, or go through the hassle to get a more authentic experience. Many DDR enthusiasts like myself want an authentic, official, KONAMI seal-of-approval game on our cabinets with no setup hassle. Unless of course you're up for the job, or don't care about all these things I'm rambling about, then StepMania or OpenITG will do.

Post #4 · Posted at 2015-08-06 02:18:06pm 8.6 years ago

Offline Doodlehead
Doodlehead Avatar Member
11 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2015-08-05

Quote: NicholasNRG
StepMania will not come close to simulating any post-SuperNOVA game for quite some time in the same way beware simulated DDR Extreme. The StepMania team has drifted away from simulating DDR, going for its own direction. Theme creators usually suck at distributing their DDR themes, and they don't always come close to the interface they're based on, with some exceptions like the DDR X2 and 2014 themes on this site which still have some details to take care of. Extra Stage systems are a hassle to set up, and 3D dancers are out of the question unless a batch of compressed video captures with the game interface cropped out and the same dance routines is your thing. There's also challenge and nonstop courses, timing windows, scoring systems, etc. Not everyone just wants a set of arrows on the screen with music, or go through the hassle to get a more authentic experience. Many DDR enthusiasts like myself want an authentic, official, KONAMI seal-of-approval game on our cabinets with no setup hassle. Unless of course you're up for the job, or don't care about all these things I'm rambling about, then StepMania or OpenITG will do.

I agree wholeheartedly; I do not want to get a cabinet and throw a non-Konami, PC simulation game on there. I love DDR Extreme, but Beware's simulation is about 98% accurate to the arcade version of it, which is why I'm leaning towards getting a Supernova 2 Arcade. I do NOT want a DDR machine to simply run Stepmania on it. There are several reasons why, but the biggest is... why would I spend thousands to get an heavy, massive monitor and controller for my PC? I want it for the authenticity; the real DDR feel.

Thanks for the responses, but still haven't touched on the question of the Python 2's hardware and it's troubleshooting, etc. Hoping someone has an answer. Puppy Face

Post #5 · Posted at 2015-08-06 03:02:13pm 8.6 years ago

Offline NicholasNRG
NicholasNRG Avatar Member
635 Posts
Puerto Rico
Reg. 2014-06-21

"Just Play Along"
I can't offer much help with my little experience with DDR cabinets, but it case you find it hard looking for a dedicated cabinet, this thread will help you in converting 573-era cabinets to Python 2 with an upgrade kit, a cheaper alternative. http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/viewthread.php?threadid=2822

If what you describe were possible, there would probably be lots of bootlegs made for replacement purposes. I'd say look into those?

Post #6 · Posted at 2015-08-06 03:14:17pm 8.6 years ago

Offline Doodlehead
Doodlehead Avatar Member
11 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2015-08-05

Quote: NicholasNRG
If what you describe were possible, there would probably be lots of bootlegs made for replacement purposes. I'd say look into those?

Valid point. Shame though... I'd really like to attempt this myself... Wonder if I can get my hands on a Python2 for cheap, and test it out. Surely there's a way you can get this loaded with the Supernova 2 upgrade kit, right? It installs on the drive... Hmm... Thinking out loud here. With a few simple mods, you can make any PS2 load up anything, and I'm sure their upgrade disc works similar to a few of the DVD MC_BOOT and ESR loader mods... Evil Puppy

Post #7 · Posted at 2015-08-06 04:14:41pm 8.6 years ago

Offline NicholasNRG
NicholasNRG Avatar Member
635 Posts
Puerto Rico
Reg. 2014-06-21

"Just Play Along"
You could try HD Loader/Advance, which copies PS2 discs to the hard drive for playing without the disc, but that's only assuming the arcade Python 2 games install just like any other PS2 game, and that it would let you copy games that are already installed on one hdd to another. Once again I am speaking with no experience and only making suggestions. I would be very careful when tinkering with an arcade game's data like this.

Post #8 · Posted at 2015-08-06 05:07:15pm 8.6 years ago

Offline AxelWasHere
AxelWasHere Avatar Member
1,580 Posts
United States
Reg. 2012-07-13

"No."
The PS2 in a Supernova2 isn't the same as a normal ps2. It doesn't even boot. Its just a shell with internal different hardware.
The CD Drive isn't really needed on that PS2. There is no use of doing this. Having a Modded PS2 and trying to Extract a Python2 HDD isn't really possible. Dont think it is.
https://i.imgur.com/vnrpBDk.gif

Post #9 · Posted at 2015-08-06 09:35:34pm 8.6 years ago

Offline Doodlehead
Doodlehead Avatar Member
11 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2015-08-05

Quote: AxelWasHere
Having a Modded PS2 and trying to Extract a Python2 HDD isn't really possible. Dont think it is.
Quote: AxelWasHere
Dont think it is.

Ah. Don't think it is... but not confirmed. Encryption might be a problem though, I agree... it might not be possible... but it also just might be... No way to tell until someone tries it... As I haven't seen anything on this, I'm guessing I might be one of the first. Will see what happens when the time comes. Challenge

Post #10 · Posted at 2015-08-06 09:45:13pm 8.6 years ago

Offline kenny
kenny Avatar Member
572 Posts
United States
Reg. 2014-06-14

You can always Build an Cabinet just like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84xk8WvwYfk and as for the pads there are people that make the pads with the lights for you I can try to find the link to it somewhere and I have an homemade stepmania cabinet which I'm still building

Post #11 · Posted at 2015-08-07 06:38:06am 8.6 years ago

Offline AxelWasHere
AxelWasHere Avatar Member
1,580 Posts
United States
Reg. 2012-07-13

"No."
Quote: Doodlehead
Quote: AxelWasHere
Having a Modded PS2 and trying to Extract a Python2 HDD isn't really possible. Dont think it is.
Quote: AxelWasHere
Dont think it is.

Ah. Don't think it is... but not confirmed. Encryption might be a problem though, I agree... it might not be possible... but it also just might be... No way to tell until someone tries it... As I haven't seen anything on this, I'm guessing I might be one of the first. Will see what happens when the time comes. Challenge

The encryption is too tight on those things To even get it to boot you need the J-PAC the actual boards the IO Board connected, Everything to even get it started.
https://i.imgur.com/vnrpBDk.gif

Post #12 · Posted at 2015-08-07 07:33:12am 8.6 years ago

Offline supertoaster
supertoaster Avatar Member
36 Posts
United States
Reg. 2015-04-20

"TELOS"
Supernova 2 is a good choice.

The only reason I would buy a 573 is to play all of the older games which I'm more familiar with. That's a lot of games right there with the 573.
http://mmii.info/ico4/ddr_extremeLogo.gif http://mmii.info/ico4/ddr_3rdMixLogo.gif http://mmii.info/ico4/ddr_5thMixLogo.gif
http://mmii.info/ico4/ddr_MAXlogo.gifhttp://media.ign.com/boards/images/icons2/ddr_max2.gif Challenge me!


Post #13 · Posted at 2015-08-07 08:53:08pm 8.6 years ago

Offline Doodlehead
Doodlehead Avatar Member
11 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2015-08-05


Last updated: 2015-08-07 08:55pm
Quote: AxelWasHere
The encryption is too tight on those things To even get it to boot you need the J-PAC the actual boards the IO Board connected, Everything to even get it started.

I don't think we're on the same page... I'm not attempting to rig my own machine using just a PS2... I'm simply looking to see if it's possible to "fix" the Python 2 should the time come and the hard drive fails, etc. System 573 runs on flash and CD/DVD, which has a much smaller chance of failure than a spinning hard disk drive. Supernova/2 running on an HDD concerns me for this very reason, as working in the IT world, I see a failed hard drive at least once a month... at. least.

To reiterate, my attempts here would be to fix an official Python 2 by my own means, rather than having to send it off for a $1000 repair, something I'm not fond of spending. This is my current quest... to see if I can "backup" the current PS2 information, and have a backup on site should something go wrong. Proactively thinking, rather than buying the machine, it possibly dying, then rendering it useless.

Quote: supertoaster
Supernova 2 is a good choice.

The only reason I would buy a 573 is to play all of the older games which I'm more familiar with. That's a lot of games right there with the 573.

I can agree with you there. Love all the old games, but prior to Extreme, there aren't many songs - and as the games get older, they become more irrelevant, as the newest DDR games have most (if not all) of the good songs are on Extreme and the Supernova's... minus a few of my favorite Dancemania songs... And as I said before, as much as I want the authentic DDR Extreme, the 'free' Stepmania sim that Beware made is verrrrrry accurate to the arcade, and I just can't see myself spending the money on a machine with something I already have... Which is why I'm set on Supernova... more songs, newer interface, stuff I haven't seen before, etc.

Thanks for all the feedback! Keep it comin'! Cool

UPDATE:
As my research furthers, I'm wondering if I cannot simply clone the HDD in the PS2, and have the cloned drive set aside until the original dies... It would be a bit-for-bit clone, and therefore should have all the references needed for the security key/encryption on that specific PS2 to boot the game... right? Does anyone have any experience with this? Curious to know if anyone has tried cloning the drive onto an SSD, and then throw that in there with a PATA-to-SATA adapter to supplement the IDE controller on the network adapter. Surprised

Post #14 · Posted at 2015-08-07 11:10:30pm 8.6 years ago

Offline [ICNH]
[ICNH] Avatar Banned
157 Posts
United States
Reg. 2008-01-25


Last updated: 2015-08-07 11:11pm
Quote: AxelWasHere
Well, You can buy a 573 and load it with stepmania to play the SuperNova songs and even 2014 songs. You can just load a DDR theme on it.

This is untrue actually. The 573 isn't a standard computer, so you can't load Windows/Mac/Linux programs on it. You'd have to get a separate computer.

Regarding the Python 2 hard drive woes, there are cracked versions of both SN1 and SN2 that you can use if your hard drive fails (which it very well can). I can't really say anything more than that, but there are options for owners who have had the unfortunate luck to have their hard drive die on them.

I believe it's impossible to clone the hard drive and use that in case of failure. I think the dongles and everything are specifically designed for the exact serial number of the original drive, and the software will be able to tell that something is different. I could be wrong though.

Post #15 · Posted at 2015-08-08 12:33:52am 8.6 years ago

Offline AxelWasHere
AxelWasHere Avatar Member
1,580 Posts
United States
Reg. 2012-07-13

"No."
Quote: [ICNH]
Quote: AxelWasHere
Well, You can buy a 573 and load it with stepmania to play the SuperNova songs and even 2014 songs. You can just load a DDR theme on it.

This is untrue actually. The 573 isn't a standard computer, so you can't load Windows/Mac/Linux programs on it. You'd have to get a separate computer.

Regarding the Python 2 hard drive woes, there are cracked versions of both SN1 and SN2 that you can use if your hard drive fails (which it very well can). I can't really say anything more than that, but there are options for owners who have had the unfortunate luck to have their hard drive die on them.

I believe it's impossible to clone the hard drive and use that in case of failure. I think the dongles and everything are specifically designed for the exact serial number of the original drive, and the software will be able to tell that something is different. I could be wrong though.

I knew you would come in.
Was waiting for you actually, And i meant by putting a spare computer in of course you cant load windows on a 573.
the dongles do have a serial number on which python you are using that is correct.
https://i.imgur.com/vnrpBDk.gif

Post #16 · Posted at 2015-08-08 03:01:05am 8.6 years ago

Offline [ICNH]
[ICNH] Avatar Banned
157 Posts
United States
Reg. 2008-01-25

You said "You can buy a 573 and load it with stepmania". So my apologies for thinking you meant exactly what you said.

Post #17 · Posted at 2015-08-10 05:18:14pm 8.6 years ago

Offline Doodlehead
Doodlehead Avatar Member
11 Posts
Canada
Reg. 2015-08-05

Quote: [ICNH
Regarding the Python 2 hard drive woes, there are cracked versions of both SN1 and SN2 that you can use if your hard drive fails (which it very well can). I can't really say anything more than that, but there are options for owners who have had the unfortunate luck to have their hard drive die on them.

Interesting... in all my searches, the only solution to the failed hard drive I've found is to send it to Betson, and pay $1000 for a replacement PS2. I'd be curious to find these "cracked" versions as a backup. Not fond of investing money into something that may be a paperweight.

Quote: [ICNH
I believe it's impossible to clone the hard drive and use that in case of failure. I think the dongles and everything are specifically designed for the exact serial number of the original drive, and the software will be able to tell that something is different. I could be wrong though.

I still think I'll try this (carefully, of course) and let the world know, as I've yet to find someone who has tried it... Would hope this will work, and I can throw it on an SSD, which will have a smaller chance of failure than an HDD.

Thanks for the feedback. My research continues... Cool
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