Post #1 · Posted at 2009-08-26 12:22:58am 14.6 years ago
 Kyzentun | |
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Can we just get rid of the idea that the flashing foot rating means a harder song once and for all?
If you play Extreme 2 CS, you see Paranoia Survivor
flashing.
This is a clear indication that flashing was just something that Konami did for a few songs just to make them look cooler.
The flashing bar does not indicate difficulty. That's why you don't see flashing foot ratings on newer games like SN2 and X, where you have plenty of songs harder than Paranoia Survivor.
Step 1: Have a post in a locked thread. Nobody reads these because they're locked.
Step 2: Edit the post to whatever you want to say. Nothing stops you from editing it.
Step 3: PM the person that you want to read the post, so they know it happened.
If you play Extreme 2 CS, you see Paranoia Survivor
flashing.This is a clear indication that flashing was just something that Konami did for a few songs just to make them look cooler.
The flashing bar does not indicate difficulty. That's why you don't see flashing foot ratings on newer games like SN2 and X, where you have plenty of songs harder than Paranoia Survivor.
Step 1: Have a post in a locked thread. Nobody reads these because they're locked.
Step 2: Edit the post to whatever you want to say. Nothing stops you from editing it.
Step 3: PM the person that you want to read the post, so they know it happened.
Post #2 · Posted at 2009-08-26 12:30:15am 14.6 years ago
| -Viper- | |
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Why would they want to make certain 10 footers look cooler than others? Perhaps because they are meant to be harder? Why doesn't Sakura flash in Extreme /Extreme 2 then or Paranoia Survivor in Extreme? Probably because they are easier.
In the mixes that flashing 10s are present, it's pretty clear they're meant to be harder than the non-flashing.
In the mixes that flashing 10s are present, it's pretty clear they're meant to be harder than the non-flashing.
Post #3 · Posted at 2009-08-26 12:46:37am 14.6 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
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I'm saying that on the general scale, saying a song is flashing means nothing when comparing its difficulty to songs from other mixes.
Post #4 · Posted at 2009-08-26 12:58:23am 14.6 years ago
| Daiz | |
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I say by today's standards, yeah, flashing 10s are not harder, but during the day of flashing 10s, they were definitely top tier songs. Though I never looked at a flashing 10 and though "omg it's harder than a normal 10", I just saw it was "oh hey it's flashing". The question is, why do you bring this up? Is there someone out there that's actually arguing this point?
Post #5 · Posted at 2009-08-26 01:03:05am 14.6 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
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I read some of the posts from a couple days ago that I had skipped in the Multi-platform thread, and someone mentioned it.
Post #6 · Posted at 2009-08-26 01:04:17am 14.6 years ago
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Ah okay I misunderstood, Kyzentun is correct.
This is why we either need to keep the 1-20 scale, or raise the highest rating a bit. Going back to simple 1-10 scale on new DDR games = no.
This is why we either need to keep the 1-20 scale, or raise the highest rating a bit. Going back to simple 1-10 scale on new DDR games = no.
Post #7 · Posted at 2009-08-26 01:11:59am 14.6 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
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Here's the relevant quote for those who are curious:
Also, this part was just funny:
Quote: AeronPeryton
And instead of "flashing" 10s why not just add another pip to the bar like they did in 3rdMIX and DDRMAX?
Also, this part was just funny:
Quote: AeronPeryton
But no one said a 10 has a ceiling for the difficulty it represents. To me, a 10 is 10 and anything above that. If you can play 10s then you can be okay with some of them being hard 10s, some being harder 10s, and some being impossible.
I think I'll just rate all my charts as 1s. If you can play 1s, you can be fine with some of them being hard 1s, some being harder 1s, and some being impossible.Post #8 · Posted at 2009-08-26 01:47:58pm 14.6 years ago
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Quote: Kyzentun
Quote: AeronPeryton
But no one said a 10 has a ceiling for the difficulty it represents. To me, a 10 is 10 and anything above that. If you can play 10s then you can be okay with some of them being hard 10s, some being harder 10s, and some being impossible.
I think I'll just rate all my charts as 1s. If you can play 1s, you can be fine with some of them being hard 1s, some being harder 1s, and some being impossible.Except that's not what I said is it? There are levels above 1 so there needs to be a cap, logically. There are no levels, in DDR, above 10 so if you look at it as if 10 simply represents "Everything harder than a 9"... well, it doesn't bother me all that much but it seems to really frustrate you. How many 10s in DDR are there anyways? Not so many that an avid player can't keep mental track of which are really 9s, which are 10s and which are harder. And I agree with you that Konami didn't keep with the flashing thing either so now flashing 10s don't communicate anything other than "Hey, It's flashing". At the time of EXTREME I would have told you that it meant 11. I still don't understand why Konami doesn't just pad the difficulty bar like they always have.
Post #9 · Posted at 2009-08-26 02:00:42pm 14.6 years ago
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Quote: AeronPeryton
Except that's not what I said is it? There are levels above 1 so there needs to be a cap, logically. There are no levels, in DDR, above 10 so if you look at it as if 10 simply represents "Everything harder than a 9"... well, it doesn't bother me all that much but it seems to really frustrate you.
You're missing his point; he's saying, why is 10 the arbitrary cutoff, where anything harder than that is just nebulously called a 10 and left at that? Why isn't 1 the cutoff? There's no reason to have 1 over 10; there levels above 10 in DDR now. There clearly are; bag was not equivalent to Pluto Relinquish. The rating 10 is meaningless when this becomes the case.
beatmania IIDX did this; Anothers weren't rated; they were just designated as "harder than 7key." And you know what? That wasn't helpful at all to players, and they changed it to a 12 point scale where 12 is 12, not 12 and everything harder, and for the most part they've been actively re-rating things to keep this scale accurate and consistent. You'd be hard pressed to find a single player who prefers the old rating system to the new.
Post #10 · Posted at 2009-08-26 02:13:27pm 14.6 years ago
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...Why is this even an issue? They don't even use Flashing 10s anymore.
Post #11 · Posted at 2009-08-26 02:38:55pm 14.6 years ago
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I don't comprehend why Extreme selected their "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10's when half of them aren't even hard. Look at LoM which is EASIER than Max 300 or Unlimited. The only two flashing 10s in Extreme that deserve to be 'flashing 10s' are PSM on Heavy and Challenge difficulties.
Post #12 · Posted at 2009-08-26 05:54:08pm 14.6 years ago
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Quote: Arctic Wolves
Quote: AeronPeryton
Except that's not what I said is it? There are levels above 1 so there needs to be a cap, logically. There are no levels, in DDR, above 10 so if you look at it as if 10 simply represents "Everything harder than a 9"... well, it doesn't bother me all that much but it seems to really frustrate you.
You're missing his point; he's saying, why is 10 the arbitrary cutoff, where anything harder than that is just nebulously called a 10 and left at that? Why isn't 1 the cutoff? There's no reason to have 1 over 10; there levels above 10 in DDR now. There clearly are; bag was not equivalent to Pluto Relinquish. The rating 10 is meaningless when this becomes the case.
beatmania IIDX did this; Anothers weren't rated; they were just designated as "harder than 7key." And you know what? That wasn't helpful at all to players, and they changed it to a 12 point scale where 12 is 12, not 12 and everything harder, and for the most part they've been actively re-rating things to keep this scale accurate and consistent. You'd be hard pressed to find a single player who prefers the old rating system to the new.
I said exactly that on the multi-platform thread, and it brought to mind what Konami did to IIDX with me as well. They should just keep adding numbers to scale as needed instead of redoing the whole scale making almost all the numbers represent something other than what they have for the last decade.
Quote: Mercury
I don't comprehend why Extreme selected their "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10's when half of them aren't even hard. Look at LoM which is EASIER than Max 300 or Unlimited. The only two flashing 10s in Extreme that deserve to be 'flashing 10s' are PSM on Heavy and Challenge difficulties.
At first it looked as if they would use it for harder 10s but now "flashing" seems to represent ES and OMES. Does it flash in DDR X at all? I remember the good old days of EXTREME, everyone I knew called CARTOON HEROES on SINGLE HEAVY a "flashing 9".
Post #13 · Posted at 2009-08-26 10:25:43pm 14.6 years ago
| Kyzentun | |
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You know what? I'm not even going to argue with a moron. There just isn't a point to trying to reason with someone who couldn't see a point if it hit them in the eye.
Post #14 · Posted at 2009-08-27 12:06:12am 14.6 years ago
| n00b_saib0t | |
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everyone shut the hell up, do some research, then try again. i'm about to blow this whole argument up, and then laugh at you all for being so stupid.
2:46. whats that? SAKURA is flashing? its fucking arbitrary and means nothing, so you're all arguing like idiots for no god damn reason?
its not an "11 footer". its not a "boss 10"(paranoia survivor didnt flash in extreme AC). its not anything. its arbitrary.
as for "adding numbers to scale as needed instead of redoing the whole scale" like IIDX apparently did, again, do some fucking research. yes, IIDX went from 7 to flashing 7, to 8 to flashing 8 and bumped the flashing 7s along the way. on the flip side of that, when they created the 1-10 rating for BMUS and the 1-12 rating for happy sky, they RERATED EVERY SONG. it was EXACTLY like the 1-20 DDRX change. fail comparison was fail.
so youre all wrong about flashers, and youre all wrong about the IIDX rating scale except for arctic who pointed out that they rerated songs and went unheard by all the childish posters who wanted to scream illogically in an attempt to be right.
in conclusion, YOU STOLE FIZZY LIFTING DRINK. YOU BUMPED INTO THE CEILING WHICH NOW HAS TO BE WASHED AND STERILIZED. SO YOU LOSE. YOU GET NOTHING. GOOD DAY, SIR!
2:46. whats that? SAKURA is flashing? its fucking arbitrary and means nothing, so you're all arguing like idiots for no god damn reason?
its not an "11 footer". its not a "boss 10"(paranoia survivor didnt flash in extreme AC). its not anything. its arbitrary.
as for "adding numbers to scale as needed instead of redoing the whole scale" like IIDX apparently did, again, do some fucking research. yes, IIDX went from 7 to flashing 7, to 8 to flashing 8 and bumped the flashing 7s along the way. on the flip side of that, when they created the 1-10 rating for BMUS and the 1-12 rating for happy sky, they RERATED EVERY SONG. it was EXACTLY like the 1-20 DDRX change. fail comparison was fail.
so youre all wrong about flashers, and youre all wrong about the IIDX rating scale except for arctic who pointed out that they rerated songs and went unheard by all the childish posters who wanted to scream illogically in an attempt to be right.
in conclusion, YOU STOLE FIZZY LIFTING DRINK. YOU BUMPED INTO THE CEILING WHICH NOW HAS TO BE WASHED AND STERILIZED. SO YOU LOSE. YOU GET NOTHING. GOOD DAY, SIR!
Post #15 · Posted at 2009-08-27 12:31:20am 14.6 years ago
| Daiz | |
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I say Konami just stop using numbers for ratings and go back to words.
Catastrophic
Super Catastrophic
Piss Your Pants Catastrophic
LOLWTF
done
Catastrophic
Super Catastrophic
Piss Your Pants Catastrophic
LOLWTF
done
Post #16 · Posted at 2009-08-27 12:31:34am 14.6 years ago
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Quote: Mercury
I don't comprehend why Extreme selected their "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10's when half of them aren't even hard. Look at LoM which is EASIER than Max 300 or Unlimited. The only two flashing 10s in Extreme that deserve to be 'flashing 10s' are PSM on Heavy and Challenge difficulties.
HahahahaPost #17 · Posted at 2009-08-27 12:50:18am 14.6 years ago
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Ok so I totally disagree that LoM is easier than Max 300. Maybe if you're a bar raper, but for a normal human, Max 300 is only stamina draining. Nothing technically hard about it at all. But this isn't a LoM vs *insert 10 footer* debate.
Extreme also didn't use the "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10s. If so then Paranoia Survivor, bag, and Sakura would be flashing 10s. But honestly, who cares about the flashing. Let's worry about when Konami's going to produce some freaking pads that work.
Extreme also didn't use the "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10s. If so then Paranoia Survivor, bag, and Sakura would be flashing 10s. But honestly, who cares about the flashing. Let's worry about when Konami's going to produce some freaking pads that work.
Post #18 · Posted at 2009-08-27 01:09:08am 14.6 years ago
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Quote: Daiz
Ok so I totally disagree that LoM is easier than Max 300. Maybe if you're a bar raper, but for a normal human, Max 300 is only stamina draining. Nothing technically hard about it at all. But this isn't a LoM vs *insert 10 footer* debate.
Extreme also didn't use the "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10s. If so then Paranoia Survivor, bag, and Sakura would be flashing 10s. But honestly, who cares about the flashing. Let's worry about when Konami's going to produce some freaking pads that work.
The gallops leading into the jumps in LoM rape me every time. I've always been somewhat lacking in the footspeed area anyway. People with higher foot speed but less ability to deal with streams might find LoM easier than Max 300 though.Extreme also didn't use the "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10s. If so then Paranoia Survivor, bag, and Sakura would be flashing 10s. But honestly, who cares about the flashing. Let's worry about when Konami's going to produce some freaking pads that work.
Konami will is already producing plenty of pads that work perfectly. It's not a problem. Now, sending those pads to arcades outside Japan, that's the problem. It doesn't matter to me though because I will not spend my money to play a game with that announcer. Even if I only here him on the score screen and the song select screen, that's still too much.
Post #19 · Posted at 2009-08-27 02:15:55am 14.6 years ago
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Even when playing barless, Legend of Max for me is fairly straightforward apart from maybe the end run? The only aspect of LoM that could make it 'hard' is the gratuitous amount of jumps throughout the song and the 333bpm tempo?
Post #20 · Posted at 2009-08-27 04:16:57am 14.6 years ago
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Quote
I don't comprehend why Extreme selected their "new" boss songs to be Flashing 10's when half of them aren't even hard. Look at LoM which is EASIER than Max 300 or Unlimited. The only two flashing 10s in Extreme that deserve to be 'flashing 10s' are PSM on Heavy and Challenge difficulties.
This post alone has convinced me that difficulty is relative and subjective, and that the 1-10 scale works just as well as a 1-100 scale will. Nobody will ever agree on which songs are universally harder than others. :{